I have enough funds to get one of these things. If I get the U87, I will be stuck with the converters on the firepod. If I get the Rosetta 800, my main mics will be a KSM44, a SM7B, a sm57, and an ADK Hamburg. So whats more important to my signal chain in this case; Mic or ADC?
U87 or Apogee Rosetta 800?
- Thread starter mikeeb
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The Cancers
New member
If I had the money and that particular choice at hand, I'd probably get a high quality 2-channel AD/DA converter and use the leftover money to get one of the many slightly cheaper but still very high quality LDCs offered by one of the countless mic manufacturers out there.
This is assuming -
you really need some better converters,
you really need a better mic,
you don't necessarily need 8 channels of super-high quality conversion (since you only listed 4 mics - maybe you've got other line level signals going in at the same time or something),
and you don't necessarily need a $3000 microphone (which, hey, I don't know what you're recording or how you'd utilize it. Maybe you do.)
Why not go with the Apogee Rosetta 200 and something from maybe Bock or Mojave or one of the other smaller American mic makers?
This is assuming -
you really need some better converters,
you really need a better mic,
you don't necessarily need 8 channels of super-high quality conversion (since you only listed 4 mics - maybe you've got other line level signals going in at the same time or something),
and you don't necessarily need a $3000 microphone (which, hey, I don't know what you're recording or how you'd utilize it. Maybe you do.)
Why not go with the Apogee Rosetta 200 and something from maybe Bock or Mojave or one of the other smaller American mic makers?
Hey man. Thanks for your reply. The reason I wanted to go with the 800 is that I would hate to limit myself to 2 channels. This is not something I plan on stopping anytime soon, and with converters as great as the Apogee I don't think I will be upgrading for a long long while. In the future though, I do see myself tracking drums more and more frequently. So with that in mind, do you go high quality mic or converter? Which will really alter my sound more positively?
Farview
Well-known member
The mic is going to make the bigger difference, followed by the preamp and then the converter.
U87's are great mics, but for some reason there is more hype about them than they really deserve. It is not the answer to every need, it is just a mic with it's own sound. It may or may not flatter what you are trying to record.
Once you get past the lower and mid-grade equipment, it's all about the same quality. It's just a matter of personal taste which you pick.
There are other converters that are every bit as good as the apogee's that won't run you that much. There are other mics that are of the same quality as a U87 that don't cost as much.
You never mentioned what preamp you will be using. That will make a difference too.
U87's are great mics, but for some reason there is more hype about them than they really deserve. It is not the answer to every need, it is just a mic with it's own sound. It may or may not flatter what you are trying to record.
Once you get past the lower and mid-grade equipment, it's all about the same quality. It's just a matter of personal taste which you pick.
There are other converters that are every bit as good as the apogee's that won't run you that much. There are other mics that are of the same quality as a U87 that don't cost as much.
You never mentioned what preamp you will be using. That will make a difference too.
Thanks for the wisdom man. I am going to be using a Great River MP-2NV as my mic pre. The reason I wanted to upgrade the converters but wasn't sure is because how shitty the firepod is. but then again, the KSM44 is good but not premium quality
Farview
Well-known member
I'm pretty sure there are cheaper alternatives to the apogee. If the KSM44 is getting the job done, it's all the quality you need. The U87 is really good at a couple things and really sucks at others. Don't get it because 'it's a U87', get one because it's the right mic for the job.
Yeah dude i totally agree. I have used a u87 before and fell in love with it. It was the older model though so idk if that changes anything. The Great River i heard is amazing so thats why I bought that. As for the converters, do you know of any cheaper alternatives that will still give me the same type of quality. I am spending top dollar because I do not want to have to upgrade this stuff again for a while. Do you have a different recommendation though?
PDP
There once was a note
Looking into this too, from what I'm reading there's Apogee, RME and Lynx. Havent found anything else considered to be in that catagory. RME is a little less dough. MOTU is interesting and they sound pretty good to me, less money too, but guys are saying the other three are still better.
????
????
At some point I understand it is all subjective. The movement goes lateral more than anything else. However I feel like there has to be a quality difference between the Rosetta 800 and the other converters. From what I read, it is signifigant enough to almost justify the price. What cabling would I need to run from an Apogee, to an external mic pre (Great River MP-2nv), to my KRK RP8s, to my laptop (Has a PCI express port). How much is it going to run me? Thanks
The Cancers
New member
Something like this:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DA88BQ5
With that DB25 connector on the one end and TRS (or XLR if you prefer) on the other.
That's how you're going to get out to your monitors.
From the mic pre to the rosetta, you're gonna need another of the same sort of cable.
Getting to the computer depends on how you want to get signals into your computer.
Your best bet may be the firewire option for the Rosetta, though you may have another way in.
Unfortunately, your firepod only has SPDIF digital ins and outs, so you can't use it as an interface without having to use it's AD/DA converters (which kind of negates the point of the Rosetta).
The rosetta isn't designed to integrate with your current interface, but the firewire upgrade for it essentially turns it into an 8 channel interface (it comes with monitoring software, which will be important for using it as one).
It's gonna seem to be either that or a new interface that was designed with higher-end compatibility in mind (ie Wordclock in on BNC, digital in on either AES or ADAT, those appear to be the big two for seamless integration with the Rosetta).
Good luck.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DA88BQ5
With that DB25 connector on the one end and TRS (or XLR if you prefer) on the other.
That's how you're going to get out to your monitors.
From the mic pre to the rosetta, you're gonna need another of the same sort of cable.
Getting to the computer depends on how you want to get signals into your computer.
Your best bet may be the firewire option for the Rosetta, though you may have another way in.
Unfortunately, your firepod only has SPDIF digital ins and outs, so you can't use it as an interface without having to use it's AD/DA converters (which kind of negates the point of the Rosetta).
The rosetta isn't designed to integrate with your current interface, but the firewire upgrade for it essentially turns it into an 8 channel interface (it comes with monitoring software, which will be important for using it as one).
It's gonna seem to be either that or a new interface that was designed with higher-end compatibility in mind (ie Wordclock in on BNC, digital in on either AES or ADAT, those appear to be the big two for seamless integration with the Rosetta).
Good luck.
So I would want to go with that cable from the Rosetta into my monitors, and then from my mic pre into the Rosetta using XLR cables? Then from my mics into my mic pre using XLR?'
If I am only going into my monitors, I dont need an 8 channel snake right?
Where do I plug my headphones in so the singer can listen to the song as they sing?
The Cancers
New member
Yes, but
I mean, yeah, mic into the pre using xlr. You're not using vintage equipment, have you seen anything else in modern mics and pres?
Anyway, you don't need those extra 6 trs ends, but you're not gonna find a dsub cable without them.
It's an 8 out format.
You would need to use two more of them anyway into a headphone amp if you want to use headphones, and that's what the singer's going to plug the headphones into.
You could circumvent the issue of the headphone amplifier with a mixer. All eight outputs from the Rosetta would go into the line inputs of the mixer and you could use the stereo send from that for your monitors, and use the headphone amp the mixer likely has built in.
You could also use the preamps on the mixer during tracking sessions where you want more than two microphones, since the preamp you're buying only has the two channels.
I know you said in this or another thread that you aren't some scrub who doesn't deserve the ridiculously expensive equipment you're getting, and I'm trying not to treat you like one, but have you really considered all these purchases?
I mean, I don't have anything even close to this complex or expensive a setup, nor have I ever worked in depth with one.
Someone like me shouldn't need to answer these questions for you.
I'm not saying you should or shouldn't invest in any of this stuff, and I really don't know anything about you or your experience level besides what you've posted about this stuff.
But the information you need is all out there, and IMHO it would really benefit you to start digging a little deeper into the research for this stuff before you buy it.
You're spending way more than a lot of people who've put out some great recordings have come close to spending on their whole kits, and you're doing it without knowing most of the ins and outs of the pieces you're buying.
I know it's easy for a big chunk of change to burn a hole in your pocket, but step back, breathe, and decide what exactly you need.
The money isn't going anywhere, and the prices are only going to go down on non-vintage pieces of equipment.
Just food for thought.
is that a joke?
I mean, yeah, mic into the pre using xlr. You're not using vintage equipment, have you seen anything else in modern mics and pres?
Anyway, you don't need those extra 6 trs ends, but you're not gonna find a dsub cable without them.
It's an 8 out format.
You would need to use two more of them anyway into a headphone amp if you want to use headphones, and that's what the singer's going to plug the headphones into.
You could circumvent the issue of the headphone amplifier with a mixer. All eight outputs from the Rosetta would go into the line inputs of the mixer and you could use the stereo send from that for your monitors, and use the headphone amp the mixer likely has built in.
You could also use the preamps on the mixer during tracking sessions where you want more than two microphones, since the preamp you're buying only has the two channels.
I know you said in this or another thread that you aren't some scrub who doesn't deserve the ridiculously expensive equipment you're getting, and I'm trying not to treat you like one, but have you really considered all these purchases?
I mean, I don't have anything even close to this complex or expensive a setup, nor have I ever worked in depth with one.
Someone like me shouldn't need to answer these questions for you.
I'm not saying you should or shouldn't invest in any of this stuff, and I really don't know anything about you or your experience level besides what you've posted about this stuff.
But the information you need is all out there, and IMHO it would really benefit you to start digging a little deeper into the research for this stuff before you buy it.
You're spending way more than a lot of people who've put out some great recordings have come close to spending on their whole kits, and you're doing it without knowing most of the ins and outs of the pieces you're buying.
I know it's easy for a big chunk of change to burn a hole in your pocket, but step back, breathe, and decide what exactly you need.
The money isn't going anywhere, and the prices are only going to go down on non-vintage pieces of equipment.
Just food for thought.
kidvybes
New member
...before you spring for some overpriced converters, you might want to read/watch/listen to this:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/converters.html
...don't buy into the hype...
http://www.ethanwiner.com/converters.html
...don't buy into the hype...
Myriad_Rocker
New member
I've considered Apogee before. Not the 800, but the bigger stuff. Same converter, though, I think. I compared them to Lynx. I decided on the Lynx. Great quality, great converter, cheaper price, more bang for the buck.
antichef
pornk rock
Go ahead and flame, but I'm gonna suggest the Echo Audiofire 12 and then find an old U87 like the one you liked - just make sure it works first 
I run a MP-2NV through an Audiofire 12 and it seems fine to me - I don't have meaningful experience with higher end converters, but I do have a BLA modified MOTU unit, and they're comparable on the conversion. I think the differences I hear in converters are more attributable to the very few analog components it takes to get the signal off the wire and into the chip (or vice versa) than to any aspect of the actual conversion process - definitely this was demonstrated when I got the MOTU back from black lion - they didn't do anything to the converter, just the path to/from it, and there was a noticeable difference.
I run a MP-2NV through an Audiofire 12 and it seems fine to me - I don't have meaningful experience with higher end converters, but I do have a BLA modified MOTU unit, and they're comparable on the conversion. I think the differences I hear in converters are more attributable to the very few analog components it takes to get the signal off the wire and into the chip (or vice versa) than to any aspect of the actual conversion process - definitely this was demonstrated when I got the MOTU back from black lion - they didn't do anything to the converter, just the path to/from it, and there was a noticeable difference.
Farview
Well-known member
You do know that they stopped making the 800 a couple months ago, don't you? You will have to get the Rossetta 200 or a Symphony.
The converters do make a difference, but it really isn't a big one. No one is going to say your recordings suck because you used a modded motu instead of apogees.
I just talked to an authorized dealer of the Apogees and they are still being made. Also, the guy at GC said they are about to get in a shipment...? Not questioning your knowledge, maybe I was told wrong?
