two different mikes for overheads?

AndreiR

AndreiR

Member
Hi everybody!

Did anybody use two different mics for overheads? For those I have Audio-Technica AT2035 and Oktava MC 012.
There is also one SM57 on a snare, and Shure Beta 52A on a kick.

I plan positioning the overheads two feet above cymbals on either side and from the back of the drummer.

I know that it's recommended to use two identical mics for overheads. But this is what I have now. Is it worth trying to use two in order to create wider stereo, or just one would be absolutely fine, cleaner or whatever ...

Thank you for your help!
 
In this case, where you'll probably be leaning pretty heavily on the OHs for the kit sound and stereo image, I would think that any significant difference in the frequency response - especially in the high end - could make for a strange and unsettling kind of experience. Like, if there's a bunch more "air" on one side or another, I think that would freak me out. Might be some things you can do with EQ to even things out, and it completely depends on every other damn thing in the mix, but this is my knee jerk reaction.

Only one way to find out for sure if it will work in your specific circumstance...
 
ashcat_lt said:
In this case, where you'll probably be leaning pretty heavily on the OHs for the kit sound and stereo image, I would think that any significant difference in the frequency response - especially in the high end - could make for a strange and unsettling kind of experience. Like, if there's a bunch more "air" on one side or another, I think that would freak me out. Might be some things you can do with EQ to even things out, and it completely depends on every other damn thing in the mix, but this is my knee jerk reaction.

Only one way to find out for sure if it will work in your specific circumstance...
Click to expand...

Thanks ashcat_lt for your help! I guess this is the answer.
 
I would agree with ashcat here, as far as it being a bit uncomfortable. That is not to say that good results cannot come from using what you have. Don't expect it to sound bad, but expect, and be aware, that it will not be as consistent between the two mics, as you would like them to be.

IMO; two different mics for overheads, is better than using only one, because your mics are not the same.
 
jimmys69 said:
I would agree with ashcat here, as far as it being a bit uncomfortable. That is not to say that good results cannot come from using what you have. Don't expect it to sound bad, but expect, and be aware, that it will not be as consistent between the two mics, as you would like them to be.

IMO; two different mics for overheads, is better than using only one, because your mics are not the same.
Click to expand...

Thanks, jimmys69 for your reply! Could you please elaborate on the last one: "IMO... "?

I tried to record with those two mics. My ears are not so good. I can tell that they sound different (also due to the fact that they are 2.5 feet apart). Two mics create stereo spread for sure. But I can't tell if it's bad.
 
Well, they will sound different anyway, as they are picking up a stereo image of the kit. But it is ideal, to have them recorded with the same mic, to have a sense of similarity between them.

When recording a drum kit, with the L/R overhead technique, we are trying to capture the kit as a whole, with a stereo image. Using two different microphones to do this, is not the ideal, but not necessarily a reason to not use the setup. What I meant was, I think you would have a better result, using two different mics, in a L/R overhead setup, than you would trying to get a good drum sound by not using two mics for the overheads (one mic).

You should post a sample of what you have, with your current setup. Maybe we can offer other suggestions, or advice.
 
jimmys69 said:
Well, they will sound different anyway, as they are picking up a stereo image of the kit. But it is ideal, to have them recorded with the same mic, to have a sense of similarity between them.

When recording a drum kit, with the L/R overhead technique, we are trying to capture the kit as a whole, with a stereo image. Using two different microphones to do this, is not the ideal, but not necessarily a reason to not use the setup. What I meant was, I think you would have a better result, using two different mics, in a L/R overhead setup, than you would trying to get a good drum sound by not using two mics for the overheads (one mic).

You should post a sample of what you have, with your current setup. Maybe we can offer other suggestions, or advice.
Click to expand...

I think I understand now.
I'm too shy to post whatever I recorded -- I'm not a drummer. I'll wait for our drummer to play something to record it.
Thanks for your help, jimmys69!
 
I'm no drummer either but drums are essential to much of my ouvre. I use a matched pair for my overheads most of the time, be they condensers or dynamics, but I've used all kinds of esoteric drum mic set ups and in truth, they all work. With an unmatched pair, the differences in the two responses of the mikes can be fairly easilly compensated by fader matching once the recording has been done.
You said
Two mics create stereo spread for sure. But I can't tell if it's bad
Click to expand...
and that's the key. If you can't tell if it's bad, then it probably isn't to you. And ultimately, it's your ears that are important. Whatever an engineer records and however they mix, the rest of the world has to take it as it is. For instance, are you really not going to listen to some songs because the drums are panned way over to the right and you can barely hear the bass drum ?
Keep experimenting but you'll eventually find the positions and mic types that you'll stick with forever.
 
AndreiR said:
Hi everybody!

Did anybody use two different mics for overheads? For those I have Audio-Technica AT2035 and Oktava MC 012.
There is also one SM57 on a snare, and Shure Beta 52A on a kick.

I plan positioning the overheads two feet above cymbals on either side and from the back of the drummer.

I know that it's recommended to use two identical mics for overheads. But this is what I have now. Is it worth trying to use two in order to create wider stereo, or just one would be absolutely fine, cleaner or whatever ...

Thank you for your help!
Click to expand...

I'd say go for it.

Just try it and see how it turns out. Try the AT2035 on the drummers right (I'm guessing its the ride side) with the Oktava on the left (hi-hat side). Then once you're done with the first pass, flip them around so the AT2035 is on the left and the MC 012 is on the right. After that try them each out for a mono overhead. Make a point of trying to play the same beats and fills so you have a more accurate comparison.

Really there is no way to tell until you actually do it. Save your money until after you have exhausted all combinations with what you already have. Believe me, I know it's tempting to just start throwing money around on the "new and shiny", but take the time to learn about the gear you have. I'm not trying to imply anything here, but for now use what you have before spending money on things you may not need yet. In the long run you probably will want to pick up a matched pair and thats great, but have you tried using what you already paid for?

Just open up a new session and call it "Mic Test: Drums" and make each track a different test setting. Make sure to put in notes such as Mic used, Position, mini switch settings, etc... For example you can use a form of short hand to label things such as: NT C -10/80 OHL This means Rode NT2a, Cardioid, -10db pad, cutoff set to 80Hz positioned as Overhead on the left of the drummer. Take notes and spend a day playing with the microphones you have.


I hope this helps. Again just use what you've got until you know, I mean KNOW, that you need to get something different to do the job at the level you want to be able to do it at. Any mic will let you record anything, it's just that some are better at a given task than others.

Have fun.
 
Grimtraveller and Raymeous -- thanks a lot for your great responses! Lots of useful stuff you just conveyed to me kindly, indeed! I'll really follow your suggestions.
And many thanks to all who responded to my question!
Very exciting ... I guess at this point, it's time to create ))) :thumbs up:
 
Well two identical mikes are great..they seem synchronize with each other and produce a finer and a very crisp audio. I think you don't have the same set so i guess you should probably go with the single set to get optimized results..
 
If you're using them low over each side, as cymbal mics rather than actual overheads, then try it. If you're using them as proper overheads, capturing the whole kit, then identical mics would be the better choice.
 
Berndtwhite said:
Well two identical mikes are great..they seem synchronize with each other and produce a finer and a very crisp audio. I think you don't have the same set so i guess you should probably go with the single set to get optimized results..
Click to expand...
I guess "very crisp audio" is a temptation.
bouldersoundguy said:
If you're using them low over each side, as cymbal mics rather than actual overheads, then try it. If you're using them as proper overheads, capturing the whole kit, then identical mics would be the better choice.
Click to expand...
"cymbal mics" -- that's a thought! I should try that.

I appreciate your tips, guys!
 
Raymeous said:
Have fun.
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If you don't have this, the frustrations may overwhelm you. An essential item !
Raymeous said:
just use what you've got until you know, I mean KNOW, that you need to get something different to do the job at the level you want to be able to do it at.
Click to expand...
This is a great point. It does take some time to get to know the characteristics of different mics and they really are different.
Raymeous said:
Any mic will let you record anything, it's just that some are better at a given task than others
Click to expand...
Pretty much my view. Without a doubt some mics are better at some tasks than others. Some are brighter, duller, more defined, ultra sensitive, better withstanders of loud instruments etc. I can use any of my mics as a vocal mic but I've narrowed down which ones I never will......
 
Did anyone mention to make sure they are NOT outta phase with each other? If not, make sure they are not outta phase.

I use 2 different OH's all the time, no-one could ever tell, the difference is too subtle. If you hear more than a subtle difference something else is wrong.
 
grimtraveller said:
If you don't have this, the frustrations may overwhelm you. An essential item !This is a great point. It does take some time to get to know the characteristics of different mics and they really are different.Pretty much my view. Without a doubt some mics are better at some tasks than others. Some are brighter, duller, more defined, ultra sensitive, better withstanders of loud instruments etc. I can use any of my mics as a vocal mic but I've narrowed down which ones I never will......
Click to expand...
"Fun" -- right ... I think I have one of those. )) As for learning characteristics of different mics, right now I only can tell that it will take some time. Thanks, grimtraveller!

dreib said:
Did anyone mention to make sure they are NOT outta phase with each other? If not, make sure they are not outta phase.

I use 2 different OH's all the time, no-one could ever tell, the difference is too subtle. If you hear more than a subtle difference something else is wrong.
Click to expand...
How would you make it that "they are NOT outta phase with each other"?
 
If its all you got you can make it work. I would recommend getting a second of whichever OH mic you like better and using the other mic as a room mic. :D
 
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