(I posted this topic in the Drum forum, too, just hoping to reach a few more people) I need a little advice here, please. In the past I have only recorded drumsets with 3 toms total. I tuned the highest tom to the 3rd of the key of the song, the middle tom to the root, and the lowest tom to the 5th. I'm set to record an amateur band soon with 5 toms, though. The best tuning I can think of so far is (highest to lowest) 5th, 3rd, Root, 5th, 3rd. But I'm not a drummer and I haven't done that much drum recording. I'd appreciate any advice you have. Thanks.
Tuning toms for recording
- Thread starter chuchosay
- Start date
Shailat
New member
I'm not a drummer.
When in trouble - no drummer around, I use the advice given to me by a great drummer who is a studio musician.
* Don't tune to definite pith.
* Try to get the toms to sound Aprox., like 3 blind mice With 5 toms, go from high to low in between the 3 blind mice.
* Adjust for even tension all around the Toms
[This message has been edited by Shailat (edited 04-24-2000).]
When in trouble - no drummer around, I use the advice given to me by a great drummer who is a studio musician.
* Don't tune to definite pith.
* Try to get the toms to sound Aprox., like 3 blind mice With 5 toms, go from high to low in between the 3 blind mice.
* Adjust for even tension all around the Toms
[This message has been edited by Shailat (edited 04-24-2000).]
sonusman
Banned
Ahhhhhhh....Shailat, such wisdom in those words!
Yes I agree, tuning to pitch is a waist of time. No matter how many toms there are, the tuning just needs to sound natural. Each drum is going to have a limited range that it can effectively tune in and you are somewhat limited to that. Each needs a "voice". You will know it when you hear it.
A trick I learned long ago was to remove the heads and just tap on the shell. Try to remember the tone you heard, replace the heads (clear batters top and bottom is my favorite, although they don't last long, but for recording, what the hell!) and try to get the heads to the tone you heard while taping on the shell with the heads removed. This is the "voice" of the drum and will definately sound best tuned to that. But, not all kits are "matched" concerning the toms. A kit like a DW will have toms that are "matched" very well. A lower end Tama will not. So, you need to find the compormise.
Even tuning around the top head! The bottom head should be tuned almost identical for the purest tone with maximum resonance. If you want more resonance, detune the bottom head just a hair. Barely any at all. If you want less resonance, tune the bottom head up just a hair (but I like lot's of overring. You can always noise gate a little away, but you can never really add any). The process of getting the top and bottom heads tuned the same, as well as all the way around the heads is time consuming initially, but once you have it, it is easy to keep it. Although, you need to keep an ear open for detuning from playing. Once the heads warm up, the stretch and detune. On sessions where good pure drums sounds are important, we usually spend a half hour between each new song tuning. The tuning usually only last about 2 hours max, so, you have to stay on top of it. Forget getting takes right away if they come back the next day. The drummer needs to warm the heads, then some tuning. Of course, you can just go with what's there, but, that is no fun...
Ed
Yes I agree, tuning to pitch is a waist of time. No matter how many toms there are, the tuning just needs to sound natural. Each drum is going to have a limited range that it can effectively tune in and you are somewhat limited to that. Each needs a "voice". You will know it when you hear it.
A trick I learned long ago was to remove the heads and just tap on the shell. Try to remember the tone you heard, replace the heads (clear batters top and bottom is my favorite, although they don't last long, but for recording, what the hell!) and try to get the heads to the tone you heard while taping on the shell with the heads removed. This is the "voice" of the drum and will definately sound best tuned to that. But, not all kits are "matched" concerning the toms. A kit like a DW will have toms that are "matched" very well. A lower end Tama will not. So, you need to find the compormise.
Even tuning around the top head! The bottom head should be tuned almost identical for the purest tone with maximum resonance. If you want more resonance, detune the bottom head just a hair. Barely any at all. If you want less resonance, tune the bottom head up just a hair (but I like lot's of overring. You can always noise gate a little away, but you can never really add any). The process of getting the top and bottom heads tuned the same, as well as all the way around the heads is time consuming initially, but once you have it, it is easy to keep it. Although, you need to keep an ear open for detuning from playing. Once the heads warm up, the stretch and detune. On sessions where good pure drums sounds are important, we usually spend a half hour between each new song tuning. The tuning usually only last about 2 hours max, so, you have to stay on top of it. Forget getting takes right away if they come back the next day. The drummer needs to warm the heads, then some tuning. Of course, you can just go with what's there, but, that is no fun...
Ed
CharlesThomas
New member
The only thing I'd add is that if you lube your lugs (white grease works well) and use a decent drum torque (which shows you the amount of tension in each lug) you can achieve an even tuning much more easily.
Yes, it's messy and a pain in the butt initially, but once you're lubed up... you're good to go.
Actually that applies to many areas of life, not just drums.
CT
Yes, it's messy and a pain in the butt initially, but once you're lubed up... you're good to go.
Actually that applies to many areas of life, not just drums.
CT
I have one of those torque keys (a rhythmtech), and on my lugs it seems to work pretty well. I took a risk with it intially cause it was $25! Anyway, I was pretty pleased overall and I can say for sure that it did excellent job on my snare drum! Just be careful not to keep turning the key after the rod clicks, then you'll be out of tune.
BTW, names to remember for drumheads, the most popular, even though this isnt the drum forum:
Toms, top and bottom: REMO Weatherking Ambassador (yes the clear ones)
Snare top: REMO Coated Ambassador, or REMO Fiberskyn3
Snare bottom: REMO Snare Side Ambassador
Bass Drum, beater side: REMO Powerstroke3
Bass Drum Front: Anything that has a hole and will hold blankets inside (the one that came with the set)
Hope that this was helpful
[This message has been edited by CJWalker (edited 05-19-2000).]
BTW, names to remember for drumheads, the most popular, even though this isnt the drum forum:
Toms, top and bottom: REMO Weatherking Ambassador (yes the clear ones)
Snare top: REMO Coated Ambassador, or REMO Fiberskyn3
Snare bottom: REMO Snare Side Ambassador
Bass Drum, beater side: REMO Powerstroke3
Bass Drum Front: Anything that has a hole and will hold blankets inside (the one that came with the set)
Hope that this was helpful
[This message has been edited by CJWalker (edited 05-19-2000).]
Here's the one I use ... really saves a lot of time ... you still need to fine tune ... but getting there is quicker with this.
Rhythm Tech Memo Key
Rhythm Tech Memo Key
CharlesThomas
New member
>Hey CharlesThomas, have you had good luck with those torque keys for drums? I have had drummers use them and with every lug at the same tension the lugs were out of tune with each other. Nice smooth lugs too.
Can't comment on your situation, but the last two drummers I've played with both used drum torques and got great results. In fact, many studio engineers commented to our drummer "It's great to work with someone who can tune their drums decently".
He's been using V-drums for the past few years, so it's not been an issue, but were going back into the studio in June to record the new CD and I'm forcing him to use real drums. I'm sure he'll have the torque back out of retirement!
Charles Thomas
Guitarist: "Hotter Than Karl" http://www.hotterthankarl.com http://www.mp3.com/CharlesThomas
Can't comment on your situation, but the last two drummers I've played with both used drum torques and got great results. In fact, many studio engineers commented to our drummer "It's great to work with someone who can tune their drums decently".
He's been using V-drums for the past few years, so it's not been an issue, but were going back into the studio in June to record the new CD and I'm forcing him to use real drums. I'm sure he'll have the torque back out of retirement!
Charles Thomas
Guitarist: "Hotter Than Karl" http://www.hotterthankarl.com http://www.mp3.com/CharlesThomas
BakedProductions
New member
I have been playing drums for 18 years and
worked in a drum shop for over 2 years.
Here are my opinions on drums and tuning and
the hype and misconceptions behind it all:
1> Timbre Matched Shells : Scam by the manufactures to make you pick thier product over another companies. Truth is almost ALL of the drumsets made in America are THE SAME BASIC SHELL. The company is called KELLER, and they supply all the big boys with their shells.(DW, GMS) Birch and maple. Not the other garbage they are making sets out of nowadays. As far as matching the pitch of the wood: Maybe they match at the factory, but they sure as hell ain't gonna match as good when they get to you, much less a year later.
Fact is, wood is VERY sensitive to HUMIDITY. It affects its TONE like you would not believe. The ressonance of the wood is where almost ALL of your tone originates. If you played/kept a kit in a humidor forever, maybe they would sound somewhat like they did when they were being matched at the factory, but that is the ONLY way they will sound the same.
A good example that I can think of about HUMIDITY affecting wood is VIC FIRTH. They match EVERY PAIR of thier drumsticks at the factory. I have been to the factory, and have seen what they do. First they WEIGH the sticks. Once they match in weight, they then use a drum pad hooked up to a computer to match the pitch of the sticks. Once they match a pair, they put them in a sleeve that holds them together as a pair. But when you go to the music store to buy Vic Firth sticks, you will find some consistency, yes, but you will also find that not many of them are a "matched" pair. Different weight, different pitches. And after the sticks have been in the store for a few months, the differences are even more obvious. But thanks to the ingenious marketing ploy thought up by Vic Firth, they sell MILLIONS of sticks, sometimes because the comsumer doesn't understand the reality of the advertising claim.
As far as matching shells, they most likely do this while the shell is in virgin form. Before beveling, before painting/covering, before holes are drilled for the lug casings, before the hoops are attached, and finally before there is a head on it. All these things are going to affect your drums sound.
Then you also have to remember that a laquered drum ressonates differently than a covered drum. There are SO many factors that come into play before you even hit a drum, that to fret about them will make you mad.
Bottom line: (in order of importance)
1> GOOD DRUMMER
2> GOOD DRUM HEADS
3> GOOD DRUM KIT
4> GOOD MICS
worked in a drum shop for over 2 years.
Here are my opinions on drums and tuning and
the hype and misconceptions behind it all:
1> Timbre Matched Shells : Scam by the manufactures to make you pick thier product over another companies. Truth is almost ALL of the drumsets made in America are THE SAME BASIC SHELL. The company is called KELLER, and they supply all the big boys with their shells.(DW, GMS) Birch and maple. Not the other garbage they are making sets out of nowadays. As far as matching the pitch of the wood: Maybe they match at the factory, but they sure as hell ain't gonna match as good when they get to you, much less a year later.
Fact is, wood is VERY sensitive to HUMIDITY. It affects its TONE like you would not believe. The ressonance of the wood is where almost ALL of your tone originates. If you played/kept a kit in a humidor forever, maybe they would sound somewhat like they did when they were being matched at the factory, but that is the ONLY way they will sound the same.
A good example that I can think of about HUMIDITY affecting wood is VIC FIRTH. They match EVERY PAIR of thier drumsticks at the factory. I have been to the factory, and have seen what they do. First they WEIGH the sticks. Once they match in weight, they then use a drum pad hooked up to a computer to match the pitch of the sticks. Once they match a pair, they put them in a sleeve that holds them together as a pair. But when you go to the music store to buy Vic Firth sticks, you will find some consistency, yes, but you will also find that not many of them are a "matched" pair. Different weight, different pitches. And after the sticks have been in the store for a few months, the differences are even more obvious. But thanks to the ingenious marketing ploy thought up by Vic Firth, they sell MILLIONS of sticks, sometimes because the comsumer doesn't understand the reality of the advertising claim.
As far as matching shells, they most likely do this while the shell is in virgin form. Before beveling, before painting/covering, before holes are drilled for the lug casings, before the hoops are attached, and finally before there is a head on it. All these things are going to affect your drums sound.
Then you also have to remember that a laquered drum ressonates differently than a covered drum. There are SO many factors that come into play before you even hit a drum, that to fret about them will make you mad.
Bottom line: (in order of importance)
1> GOOD DRUMMER
2> GOOD DRUM HEADS
3> GOOD DRUM KIT
4> GOOD MICS
BakedProductions
New member
Thought I would use a second post for my feelings on tuning:
1> Put the head on slightly tight, then STRETCH THE HELL OUT OF IT!!! By this, I mean pushing on it with you fist, elbow, knee, head, face, whatever you use. (Just make sure it is blunt)
If it is a base drum, and you are not over-weight, STAND ON IT! (I mean the batter head only, the one your base pedal beats on)Stretch those things for a while. This helps keep the tuning IN TUNE.
2> When tighting lugs, do so in a criss-cross/opposite pattern. For example, if you tighten the lug at the 2'o clock position, then tighten the lug at the 8'o clock position next. 12'o clock, then 6'o clock. 3'o clock then 9'o clock. ect...This keeps the tension somewhat even.
3> When you get the drum close to where you want it, press your finger in the middle of the drum, then tap the head close to where the lug goes through the hoop. Be sure to keep equal pressure on the middle of the head with your finger for all the lugs. Go through and tune all the lugs as close as you can this way so that the pitch sounds similar.
Tune the bottom head slightly lower than the top head.
HERE IS A LITTLE TRICK!!!!
This is an AWESOME trick I have used ever since I learned it, and MANY, MANY pro drummers do this when tuning. (Well, maybe some of them have their drum-tech do it for them..)
Anyway, after tuning the top head, and getting a good sound out of it, DETUNE the BOTTOM lug of the drum. (By bottom, I mean in relative position to you facing the drum.)
Hit the drum while tuning the lug DOWN just a little at a time. If you do it right, you should here the tone of the drum EXPLODE!
You get this kinda low ummmmppphhh that was not there, and is not reproduced any other way. It also might take some RING out of the drum, if you have any. Trust me. If you do this the right way, you will LOVE it, and do it EVERY time you tune drums.
3> As far as heads go:
If you are recording, and give a shit about it, BUY ALL NEW HEADS!!!! TOPS AND BOTTOMS!
I know a lot of people think "But I don't hit the bottom heads with my stick, and they look alright to me!"
But that is not logical. There is A LOT of wind generated INSIDE the shell every time you hit the drum. This forces air against the bottom head, causing it to ressonate. Sure there are no stick marks, but the head IS being stretched. And after being stretched fo awhile, it is going to lose its tonality.
For most applications, SINGLE PLY heads are the way to go. Clear on the bottom, coated/non-coated on the top, which ever you prefer. Not that big a difference in tones.
My personal opinion is to NEVER RECORD with two ply heads. (Pinstripe, Fiberskin3, Emporers, etc..) If you have limiters/gates etc, then you need not worry about overring.
And besides, SOME OVERRING ADDS TO YOUR SOUND! Some people try to totally eliminate the "ring" associated with drums. THAT IS PART OF THE SOUND/TONE!!!!
Now, for playing out/touring, I would never use anything but two-ply heads. They last WAY longer, and the sound is FINE for live situations!!
Well, I hope I didn't ramble on too much, and that someone got some useful tips from my brain droppings!
Latre...
1> Put the head on slightly tight, then STRETCH THE HELL OUT OF IT!!! By this, I mean pushing on it with you fist, elbow, knee, head, face, whatever you use. (Just make sure it is blunt)
If it is a base drum, and you are not over-weight, STAND ON IT! (I mean the batter head only, the one your base pedal beats on)Stretch those things for a while. This helps keep the tuning IN TUNE.
2> When tighting lugs, do so in a criss-cross/opposite pattern. For example, if you tighten the lug at the 2'o clock position, then tighten the lug at the 8'o clock position next. 12'o clock, then 6'o clock. 3'o clock then 9'o clock. ect...This keeps the tension somewhat even.
3> When you get the drum close to where you want it, press your finger in the middle of the drum, then tap the head close to where the lug goes through the hoop. Be sure to keep equal pressure on the middle of the head with your finger for all the lugs. Go through and tune all the lugs as close as you can this way so that the pitch sounds similar.
Tune the bottom head slightly lower than the top head.
HERE IS A LITTLE TRICK!!!!
This is an AWESOME trick I have used ever since I learned it, and MANY, MANY pro drummers do this when tuning. (Well, maybe some of them have their drum-tech do it for them..)
Anyway, after tuning the top head, and getting a good sound out of it, DETUNE the BOTTOM lug of the drum. (By bottom, I mean in relative position to you facing the drum.)
Hit the drum while tuning the lug DOWN just a little at a time. If you do it right, you should here the tone of the drum EXPLODE!
You get this kinda low ummmmppphhh that was not there, and is not reproduced any other way. It also might take some RING out of the drum, if you have any. Trust me. If you do this the right way, you will LOVE it, and do it EVERY time you tune drums.
3> As far as heads go:
If you are recording, and give a shit about it, BUY ALL NEW HEADS!!!! TOPS AND BOTTOMS!
I know a lot of people think "But I don't hit the bottom heads with my stick, and they look alright to me!"
But that is not logical. There is A LOT of wind generated INSIDE the shell every time you hit the drum. This forces air against the bottom head, causing it to ressonate. Sure there are no stick marks, but the head IS being stretched. And after being stretched fo awhile, it is going to lose its tonality.
For most applications, SINGLE PLY heads are the way to go. Clear on the bottom, coated/non-coated on the top, which ever you prefer. Not that big a difference in tones.
My personal opinion is to NEVER RECORD with two ply heads. (Pinstripe, Fiberskin3, Emporers, etc..) If you have limiters/gates etc, then you need not worry about overring.
And besides, SOME OVERRING ADDS TO YOUR SOUND! Some people try to totally eliminate the "ring" associated with drums. THAT IS PART OF THE SOUND/TONE!!!!
Now, for playing out/touring, I would never use anything but two-ply heads. They last WAY longer, and the sound is FINE for live situations!!
Well, I hope I didn't ramble on too much, and that someone got some useful tips from my brain droppings!
Latre...