Tubes, Tubes, Tubes, Tubes....

[SteveCPerrino]

sooo, I was thinking that it's about time to re-tube my Peavey Valveking. I figured, pretty cheap amp, must have pretty cheap tubes too.

So I was thinkin about this combo:

Groove Tube GT-ECC83-S Preamp Tubes

and...

Tungsol 5881 Matched Power Tubes, Hard

I play in a deathcore band and record a lot of bands that use high-gain, does this sound like a good combination of tubes? If not, what do you recommend?

Thanks!

 

[starbuck26]

eurotubes.com

 

[Outlaws]

Don't get your hopes up on swapping tubes. It is for the most part over rated and more of a finishing polish. Finding the tubes that fit your sound is not a matter of asking if they work for death metal, its a matter of constantly buying tubes and experimenting.

I honestly feel just replacing them because you think a cheap amp has cheap tubes is going to either leave you with a false sense of awesomeness that will wear off quickly, or just wondering what all that money got you. I do not know of any way to quickly A/B tubes, so to hear the subtle differences, you better know your sound well.

 

[starbuck26]

Don't get your hopes up on swapping tubes. It is for the most part over rated and more of a finishing polish. Finding the tubes that fit your sound is not a matter of asking if they work for death metal, its a matter of constantly buying tubes and experimenting.

I honestly feel just replacing them because you think a cheap amp has cheap tubes is going to either leave you with a false sense of awesomeness that will wear off quickly, or just wondering what all that money got you. I do not know of any way to quickly A/B tubes, so to hear the subtle differences, you better know your sound well.

+1. You'll get much more mileage out of a speaker upgrade IMHO.

 

[ocnor]

Finding the tubes that fit your sound is not a matter of asking if they work for death metal, its a matter of constantly buying tubes and experimenting.

+1 You need to figure out how different tube brands/types affect the tone in each socket/position. Having said that, you might try a Shuguang 12AX7 in V1 and Tung Sol 12Ax7 in V2+V3.

+1. You'll get much more mileage out of a speaker upgrade IMHO.

That is also a good point. Having the right speakers & cabinet makes a world of difference.

 

[soundchaser59]

Don't get your hopes up on swapping tubes. It is for the most part over rated and more of a finishing polish. Finding the tubes that fit your sound is not a matter of asking if they work for death metal, its a matter of constantly buying tubes and experimenting.

It's not the tubes that work for metal, it's the pickups and the amp and everything in between. Comparing brands of the same tube will net you the least amount of difference in your sound. Changing the gain structure of your tubes will change your sound a lot, but Tung Sol or JJ it's still a 6L6.

Does your speaker work for metal? That's the other thing that can impact the sound a lot. There's a reason why Wylde uses EV's and many others use V30's.

 

[ocnor]

Comparing brands of the same tube will net you the least amount of difference in your sound.

I don't agree. There is a night and day difference between tubes especially 12AX7s. There is even a difference from tube to tube of the same brand and type. It may not be quite as dramatic a difference as a speaker change but it's equally important to the tone.

 

[c7sus]

Whatever you do avoid the Groove Tubes Chinese 12AX7's.

They are truly shit, especially the so-called Mullard reissues, and Aspen Pitt is nothing more than a con man for selling that shit on US soil.

He knows that stuff is shit yet he continues to sell it.

A pox on his house.

Try tubestore.com. They don't sell any rebranded tubes.

 

[Victory Pete]

Variety is the spice of life!

I don't agree. There is a night and day difference between tubes especially 12AX7s. There is even a difference from tube to tube of the same brand and type. It may not be quite as dramatic a difference as a speaker change but it's equally important to the tone.

I Agree, Tubes are a major factor in your final sound. The choices can be overwhelming, I have been collecting and trying different tubes for years now. I like all kinds. I think of my tube collection as a spice rack for my amps. One thing that is most important is to have the bias set for the specific type and rating of tubes. I have found the factories dont even set the bias accurately, so even a new amp would benefit from a bias job.
VP

 

[ggunn]

I don't agree. There is a night and day difference between tubes especially 12AX7s. There is even a difference from tube to tube of the same brand and type. It may not be quite as dramatic a difference as a speaker change but it's equally important to the tone.

You are both correct; one man's night and day distinction is another man's subtle (or absent) difference. Hearing is subjective.

 

[Victory Pete]

Whatever you do avoid the Groove Tubes Chinese 12AX7's.

They are truly shit, especially the so-called Mullard reissues, and Aspen Pitt is nothing more than a con man for selling that shit on US soil.

He knows that stuff is shit yet he continues to sell it.

A pox on his house.

Try tubestore.com. They don't sell any rebranded tubes.

I have been using GrooveTubes for 20 years and I have never had a problem. They dont just rebrand tubes, they conduct extensive testing and matching and rejects 50% of the tubes. They do manufacture some of their own tubes right in California, The GT6l6GE is one. http://www.groovetubes.com/
VP

 

[cephus]

I play in a deathcore band and record a lot of bands that use high-gain, does this sound like a good combination of tubes? If not, what do you recommend?

In my experience, even shitty tubes sound OK for high gain. I was interested in higher clean headroom and that was where I saw the big difference in tubes.

I bought the three grades of tube sets from eurotubes (I think) before the economy went to shit and I started packing my lunch again. the high gain ones sounded the same as the shitty groove tubes I took out.

Maybe I'm just a square.

 

[lollygagger8]

Go with JJ Tubes for power tubes and preamp tubes. They sound great, break up easily, and will sound better than Tungsols. Tungsols are nasty sounding to me. Groove Tubes would be a far 2nd choice.

Getting your amp biased with your new tubes will create the best sound out of whatever tube you choose though.

I do agree with above posts, speakers and pickups will have alot of effect on your sound too.

speakers for hard rock/metal: V30

pickup: (this may sound weird) but get the PRS Tremonti pickup for your bridge....that is by far the hottest distorted pickup I've ever used!! It's pretty clear and distinct as well. The clean on it is isn't pristine, as it will break up if you want it to. (some people like that, I don't)

 

[Victory Pete]

The Gibson 500T is the hottest pickup Gibson makes. I am not into hardcore metal, but I like high output pickups. I have 2 LP's and an SG with these and they can really scream without any of the muddiness of other high output pickups.
VP

 

[Dogbreath]

And just to throw another "me too" in the midst...

I was lookin at different tubes not that long ago and got similar responses from these fine folks.
So I swapped out one of my stock speakers with a V30 and that made an almost nite/day difference. I've got several guitars with different pups so didn't go that route.
The tube swaps I was doin, like mentioned above, are kind of my "spice rack" as well. I like the AX tubes for the early breakup and rock/metal and the AY series for when I want a nice clear top.


Oh...and get a lava lamp.

 

[lollygagger8]

The Gibson 500T is the hottest pickup Gibson makes. I am not into hardcore metal, but I like high output pickups. I have 2 LP's and an SG with these and they can really scream without any of the muddiness of other high output pickups.
VP

I put the Tremonti pickup in after a Gibson Burstbucker, and it blew it out of the water. I hadn't tried a 500T. I did also try a DiMarzio Vai pickup, and it sucked. I was using these on the Singlecut PRS I have. Cheap, plays good, and I'm not afraid of it getting beat up live.

I don't think anything can be worse than a EMG81!!! Those things sound like they have blankets over the pole pieces....I can't see how they are popular at all!

I have a PRS SC250, and those pickups are by far the best well rounded and excellent sounding pickups, and can be used for just about any style of music! <- That guitar stays in the studio! lol

 

[iownrocknroll]

isn't V3 phase invertor?

i always go with a 12au7 or 12ay7 in phase invertor

 

[iownrocknroll]

I'd also go with JJ Tesla 6l6/5881s

if this was a EL 84 amp, i'd go with the groove tubes.

The JJ Tesla 6l6's I'm running in my 900 right now sound fantastic.

 

[antichef]

I honestly feel just replacing them because you think a cheap amp has cheap tubes is going to either leave you with a false sense of awesomeness that will wear off quickly...

A false sense of awesomeness can last for a long time if you just adopt the proper frame of mind.

One subtle refinement on all the good and true things that have been said so far is that when other aspects of your signal chain become more *transparent*, you'll be able to hear the sound in tubes more. That is, if you have one or more elements in the chain that greatly change the sound (for better or worse), be it the pickup, a bad cable between the guitar and amp, one or more tone altering capacitors in the amp, a particular output transformer, the speakers, etc., then the dominating factor(s) will tend to obscure variations in the tubes. This could be good or bad, depending on how you like the sound.

For instance, I have a mid-80's Marshall half stack that really doesn't sound much different when I put different tubes in it -- a little, sure, but it's definitely the same amp. I chalk it up to the non-tube circuitry, the output transformer, and the 1960A cab with 75 watt Celestions - I *love* this amp. I have a Fender Blues Jr. that I've modded, including adding a Weber speaker, and I can hear tube changes in it a lot more -- even when I move the exact same preamp tubes back and forth between the two amps (they both use 12AX7s, but they have different power tubes, of course).

That said, there's one probably unwanted factor which can be introduced by tubes, and that's noise, generally hiss (and other, even less savory problems like microphonics, but at that point you're talking about bad tubes) -- even in the Marshall, I can reduce or increase hiss a lot by changing tubes.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I have a bunch oif tubes including some NOS tubes that go for stupid high prices and I can definitely hear the difference between them and like some and actually dislike others with varying results in my many amps.

However, for the most part, though the differences are there, they're hardly 'night and day' whereas a speaker swap will often totally change the characteristics of the amp.
For what you're describing as your desire, I'd say experimenting with the ECC83's, especially in the V1 position, will make the most noticable change but really ......... unless you're to the point where your sound is almost right and just needs some subtle tweaking, I'd look at speakers before I'd spend a bunch on tubes.