Tube Questions

ibanezrocks

New member
So I've been reading up on tube changes (via the search function) and have come up with a couple questions I haven't found the answers to.
1. The first of the preamp tubes (the inverter) is supposed to wear out first from what I just read, but would it be practical to just swap say that and the fourth preamp tube since that should be less worn out?
2. What's the best non-boutique brand of tubes? I want them to be affordable and I'm confused as to what brand to try.
The tubes are EL84 and 12AX7.
 
ibanezrocks said:
So I've been reading up on tube changes (via the search function) and have come up with a couple questions I haven't found the answers to.
1. The first of the preamp tubes (the inverter) is supposed to wear out first from what I just read, but would it be practical to just swap say that and the fourth preamp tube since that should be less worn out?
2. What's the best non-boutique brand of tubes? I want them to be affordable and I'm confused as to what brand to try.
The tubes are EL84 and 12AX7.

For preamps just swap whatever dies. They don't need to be matched pairs.

For good cheap tubes, JJ is good.
 
What amp do you have? What changes in the sound would you like to obtain by changing tubes? What style music do you mostly play? What type of guitar(s) are you using??

You need to address some of these questions before you purchase a/some new tubes..

V1 is the inverter tube in your amp??? Typically it's like V4 or V5 depending on the amp and how many channels ...

Let me tell you in advance, you've opened up a big can of worms digging into the "Tube" swapping... :)

Rick
 
WERNER 1 said:
Let me tell you in advance, you've opened up a big can of worms digging into the "Tube" swapping... :)

Rick
I'm aware of this, there were tons of results when I searched some of this stuff, sadly it was a lot of opinion and not much fact.

I actually have no idea which one is the inverter, it was my understanding it was always the first one... but I really dont know much about tubes at all.

The amp is a Mesa Subway Rocket Combo, and I want to get a smoother preamp distortion but I definitely don't need more because it is a high-gain preamp, and I just want more of the same power amp distortion. The tubes in it now just say Mesa on them, not sure who actually made them, but I'm worried that these could be really worn out and I never noticed since I bought the amp used about a year ago and its about 12 years old now, so I'm thinking it could be pretty bad if it still has the original tubes depending on how much the first owner used it. As far as I know you can't buy Mesa tubes thats just the stock tubes in the amps, so I'm worried they could have been worn out when I got them and thats why I never noticed much deterioration in the sound.

The guitars I'm using it with are an SG and an Ibanez NDM1, both with medium-high output humbuckers (Custom Custom and Evolution)
 
Is it common knowledge that tubes wear out and need replaced? What starts happening to them? I was under the impression that tubes are only new before they go through one heat cycle. then they're pretty much used, but will work until they are damaged from moving the amp when they're still hot.
 
Most of the time (not all of the time) the inverter tube is the one closest to the power tubes.

It really doesn't matter, because 12ax7s are really cheap. Just replace them all. Go to www.eurotubes.com , e-mail the guy and tell him wht you are using. He will set you up with the tubes you need really cheap.

The 'can of worms' opens when you start talking about trying to find NOS tubes for your amp, or when you want to change the type of tube you are running.
 
cephus said:
Is it common knowledge that tubes wear out and need replaced? What starts happening to them? I was under the impression that tubes are only new before they go through one heat cycle. then they're pretty much used, but will work until they are damaged from moving the amp when they're still hot.
stop making fun of me! :p
I know they wear out. It just never occured to me until now that maybe the Mesa tubes in there now are those that came with the amp 12 years ago...
 
Dude, I am not making fun> I evidently am the retard. I changed the tubes in my amp probably in 1990? I never changed them since. Maybe I should.
 
Well, you can't really drive your power tubes any harder with out just turning the master volume up. I don't know what preamp tubes are what in your amp, but 12ax7 are considered 'hi gain' preamp tubes, and they will drive the power tubes harder than any other preamp tube, but with your amps design, they will also produce the most preamp distoriton. You can minimize this (assuming you look into if its okay first) using a lower gain pre amp tube, but that won't allow you to drive your power tubes any harder than they already are.

My suggestion for that is to max out the Master and adjust the Gain/Volume/"Disortion" up from zero until taste.
 
He's gonna get bit by the old tube changing bug :D . Buy a couple 12AT's maybe a 12AY and a couple 12AX's...change them out to your hearts content. The AT's and/or AY will give a lower gain and lighter push. Mix -n- match them with the AX's. Go with the recommended mesa replacments for the finals. When you tire of that, we can talk about yellow jacket converters and other mods to that amp of your's.

He shulda bought a THD for even bigger and easier tube swapin' action.
 
I have a few Electro Harmonics-12AX7 and they sound good. The Sovtek 12AX7's are fine. There are lots of options.

In addition to the suggestions already made you could try a 5751. Personally I stick with a 12AX7 as the first gain stage tube. I dont care for the sound of the lower gain alternates. Put your best sounding tube first.

I put a pair of JJ EL84 in my Gibson GA-5T and they do sound good. The orginal RCA tubes still sound better, even after 40 yrs.
 
Tubes characteristics do change with use. If you have calibrated ears then I would replace all of the 12Axxxx tubes at the same time. If a barely perceptible change in sound is ok, then change the bad one.
Tubes are kind of like spark plugs. When spark plugs have a lot of miles on them they don't conduct as well even if you clean them and regap them though they still work.
 
Since your amp is an EL84 based amp, I would recomend the JJ EL84's as they have a very proven track record of being reliable and sounding good -- This is just for the EL84 power tubes.

Since it doesn't sound like you're really wanting to dive into the whole tube swapping thing, I would also recomend Bob @ EuroTubes as mentioned earlier. Just tell him what you would like to achieve, and he can put together a nice total package for you that will help you get closer to the sound you're looking for. The only "bad" thing about Eurotubes is that they/he only offers JJ tubes.......which isn't bad in it's self, but there are a lot of different brands out there that sound better IMO.. BUT, as I stated above, you can't go wrong with the JJ EL84 power tubes.

Typically Mesa's have a fixed, or non-adjustable bias for the power tube section, so that you shouldn't have to worry about having your amp re-biased (I would call Mesa just to be sure though)

While we're on the subject of powertubes,.... depending on how much you play (Gigging out every weekend?, Just jammin' once a week in your basement??) you should typically change your powertubes about once a year.....give or take depending on the amount of use the amp is seeing. If you're just playing at home in your bedroom using minimal volumes, you're barley getting into the power tube section of the amp, and they will last a lot longer than if you had the thing cranked to 10 all the time jammin' with a band.

Preamp tubes will last for quite some time (years typically), unless they actuall just go "bad".......which you'll know most of the time but the amp sounding really bad, or not working properly.

How many tubes are in your amp (Small/large??) the small ones are your preamp tubes - 12AX7's, and the power tubes are the larger ones (all though EL84's arn't really that much bigger than the pre's :D )

If you look on the chassis of the amp, the tube sockets should be marked in some way or another like : V1, V2, V3...and so on. If all of your tubes (Both pre's and power's) are in a single line across the chassis, then PI tube will typically be the one next to the power tube. The preamp tube that is furthest from the power tubes (The 1st one in the line) would typically be "V1" which controls the first input stages of your channel(s) -- This is a single channel amp correct?? The V1 slot will have the biggest effect of all the preamp tubes on your over all sound/tone......so it may be worth it for you to spend a few extra bucks on a "good" tube for that slot. "GOOD" is very subjective when talking about preamp tubes so take that for what it's worth :D

Some of my favorite current production preamp tubes are:

GT12AX7-M (Mullard reissue)
Tungsol 12AX7 reissue
EI 12AX7-G (Gold) ---- These three can be purchased for under 20 bucks ea.

Then you start stepping up into the Mullards, GE/Jan, Phillips, Brimar, Bugle Boy.......and the price starts going up from there :D

But as I said, you probably can't go wrong with a EuroTube package from Bob. It will make a big difference in the sound/tone of your amp, and I think you'll be very pleased with the change.........especially if you take the time to talk to Bob and tell him what you'd like to achieve and what you don't like about the tone of the amp now.

More Power Tube Sound - The only way to get more of that "power tube sound" is to crank the amp up and bring the character and overdrive of the power tubes into play --- Most of the time, unless you're playing in a loud band, that's just too loud for most folks. The fix would be an Attenuator. My personal favorite is the Weber Standard Mass, but there are others out there that work well also such as the THD HotPlate. These will allow you to crank your amp to the moon so that the power tubes are in full play, but you can control the actual speaker volume through the attenuator (It basically absorbs the energy/power coming from the poweramp section of your amp).

Crap this was a long post. :o

Good luck!

Rick
 
You're right...it was :D But we're gonna let it slide cuz it was chock full-o-good stuff.

You're not gonna go into yellow jackets and variax? ;)
 
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