Tube Microphones Power

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haarisa

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I was wondering, do Tube microphones need Phantom Power? I noticed a lot of them have a power supply given with them. I wasn't sure if I should get the Studio Projects T3 or not. I wanted to sell my C1 and VTB-1 to get a T3, but was not sure if you needed the phantom power. Please help me out if someone has the T3.
 
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you dont use 48v phantom with most tube mics...the phantom power supplies come with them..I know of only 2 phantom tube mics the Gefell um900, and the AT4060.

(oh and the MSH-4)

the t3 has power supply included.
 
haarisa said:
I was wondering, do Tube microphones need Phantom Power? I noticed a lot of them have a power supply given with them. I wasn't sure if I should get the Studio Projects T3 or not. I wanted to sell my C1 and VTB-1 to get a T3, but was not sure if you needed the phantom power. Please help me out if someone has the T3.
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...great mic...much nicer sounding than the C1...one of the guys on this site has one for sale...check it out:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=214456


BigRay said:
I know of only 2 phantom tube mics the Gefell um900, and the AT4060.
(oh and the MSH-4)
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...I believe it's actually the AT3060 that functions with phantom power, not the AT4060 which has it's own power supply...
 
The fabulous MSH-4 tube mic uses phantom power and is much less expensive than those others.
 
apl said:
The fabulous MSH-4 tube mic uses phantom power and is much less expensive than those others.
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...MSH series mics are great little additions to anyone's mic closet, but recommending them in this thread is taking the concept a bit too far...a SP T3 or an MSH-4?...hmmm... :confused:
 
He was thinking about selling other mics to get a tube mic, and the MSH-4 is a possible alternative.

The MSH-1O omnis aren't as noisy, and in all practicality you can't hear self-noise that's buried 60 dB in the signal.
 
apl said:
He was thinking about selling other mics to get a tube mic, and the MSH-4 is a possible alternative.

The MSH-1O omnis aren't as noisy, and in all practicality you can't hear self-noise that's buried 60 dB in the signal.
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Recording acoustic instruments often involves signals much quieter than that - soft passages, rests, etc. A mic with self noise above 18dB is rather noticable, and 18dB is even pushing it.
 
I understand some of the old Neumann's and the B.L.U.E. tube power supplies output a hot enough signal you can get away without a preamp in some situations.
 
sdelsolray said:
Recording acoustic instruments often involves signals much quieter than that - soft passages, rests, etc. A mic with self noise above 18dB is rather noticable, and 18dB is even pushing it.
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The self noise of most recording environments are well above the noise floors of these mics.
 
apl said:
The self noise of most recording environments are well above the noise floors of these mics.
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So by adding these two noise sources together (the mic's self noise and the studio's ambient noise) don't you get a rather high amount of noise?

I would perhaps agree that 20dB+ of self noise for a mic might not matter too much if the "acoustic" source is destined to be buried in a mix with, say, 16 other tracks. But for pure acoustic recording, say, a solo acoustic fingerstyle guitar, that much self noise from a mic is fatal, at least in my experience.
 
sdelsolray said:
So by adding these two noise sources together (the mic's self noise and the studio's ambient noise) don't you get a rather high amount of noise?
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If you mix two equivalent noise sources together, the resulting noise will something a little less than 6dB louder. If you mix two dissimilar amplitudes of noise, the resulting noise will louder than the higher source by less than 6dB; about 3.5dB with a 6dB difference, and 2dB with a 12dB difference.

However that will be affected significantly by the nature of the ambient noise. Microphone self-noise often follows something like a pink to white noise curve, depending on the design. Room noise is dependent on the source of the noise, but it's often a low-end rumble from house mechanical devices, or air movement from the same. Computer fan noise is a popular choice too . . .

In the case of the MSH-4, well the tube is a noisy device on top of the capsule. In fact I have actively discouraged people from buying stereo pairs--indeed, I decline to match them.

It is also a very different beast from the LDC AT3060 (which I own and love) and the SP T3 (which I haven't used). Usually when people are looking for a tube mic, their primary intended application is vocals, for which any 6mm capsule is relatively ill suited.

Sorry if I messed up the usefulness of that shorthand term :o
 
It's no fault of the mic. The smaller the diaphragm diameter, the higher the self noise. That's the physics of it. My point is that acoustic sources are more sensitive to noise, whether it be ambient or from the signal chain.
 
sdelsolray said:
So by adding these two noise sources together (the mic's self noise and the studio's ambient noise) don't you get a rather high amount of noise?

I would perhaps agree that 20dB+ of self noise for a mic might not matter too much if the "acoustic" source is destined to be buried in a mix with, say, 16 other tracks. But for pure acoustic recording, say, a solo acoustic fingerstyle guitar, that much self noise from a mic is fatal, at least in my experience.
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i hate using a noisy mic on acoustic guitar. if my only choices were between a mic that did'nt sound so good and a noisy mic that sounds good other wise, i'd take the quiet one.
 
BigRay said:
you dont use 48v phantom with most tube mics...the phantom power supplies come with them..I know of only 2 phantom tube mics the Gefell um900, and the AT4060.

(oh and the MSH-4)

the t3 has power supply included.
Click to expand...

Actually, Ray, the AT4060 does NOT use phantom power - it comes with it's own high voltagte power supply.

You are correct about the Gefell UM900. The only other one I can think of off hand is the AKG SolidTube? I don't believe that one comes with a power supply. (Been a long time since I saw one, so not sure.)
 
littledog said:
Actually, Ray, the AT4060 does NOT use phantom power - it comes with it's own high voltagte power supply.

You are correct about the Gefell UM900. The only other one I can think of off hand is the AKG SolidTube? I don't believe that one comes with a power supply. (Been a long time since I saw one, so not sure.)
Click to expand...

actually it was corrected in two posts above. it was the 3060.

thanks.
 
mshilarious said:
If you mix two equivalent noise sources together, the resulting noise will something a little less than 6dB louder.
Click to expand...

Psst... Hey Buddy! In case I forget, happy birthday on Tuesday!

Otto
 
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