TSR 8 track volume differences

I have some deoxit that I use on my mixers and preamps. Do you think the cutting out on channel 1+2 are connection problems?
 
pappy999 said:
I have some deoxit that I use on my mixers and preamps. Do you think the cutting out on channel 1+2 are connection problems?
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I know TASCAM 80-8s have problems like this when the relays get dirty. Look to see if your machine uses electro-mechanical relays that switch between play and record (should be on every channel card).
 
Yeah, I recall having very similar problems with my TEAC 3440 where I recorded and then it played back at low volume. I then worked the "input" buttons, at the front of the machine, back and forth many times, which operated the relays and this must have dislodged the oxidation 'cause it all worked well after that. I know it's a different machine but MCI2424 makes a good point. Yes, I would bet it's oxidation and or connection problems. It would not hurt to spray some deoxit into the RCA connectors and also clean the relays / channels cards, resitting them. That latter part I have not done so I can't comment further but it would make sense to do.
 
I've worked near-miracles on low tracks with thorough and persistent cleaning!

It helps when I can type!............... :eek: ;)
 
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You are the man!

............... :eek: ;)
I agree with Beck/Ghost when they point out examples of decks that are fine being passed off as broken, due mainly to SSS. No doubt, it's a pain in the A-SSS! This may be another case for the (A-)files. I rest my case. 'Nuff said. :eek: ;)
 
pappy999 said:
Cleaned it about 7 times....works great now. I am recording my first analog drums on Sunday. Any tips?
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Glad to hear it's working properly now for you! :)

As for recording tips for drums...

A matched pair of stereo overheads with small capsule, flat response condensers; A dynamic Mic aimed at the snare and hats and another on the kick. Use 4 tracks on the reel to reel to track it and then mix to taste after. That will give you enough room to add some bass and rhythm guitars for the beds before you bounce or transfer.

What kind of Mic's do you have available?

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
A matched pair of stereo overheads with small capsule, flat response condensers; A dynamic Mic aimed at the snare and hats and another on the kick. Use 4 tracks on the reel to reel to track it and then mix to taste after. That will give you enough room to add some bass and rhythm guitars for the beds before you bounce or transfer.
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yes i agree.

I have also had lots of success using just one overhead (a large diaphragm dynamic) and close micing the snare, toms and kick. on a four piece drumset this would use up five tracks. You can pan the toms and even the snare (very slightly!) and achieve a stereo effect without losing the ability to mix the toms in great detail. This works well with drummers who play fairly technical music and use the whole kit.

Careful with the kick! a badly mic'd kick drum can ruin a recording in my opinion. My best results have been when i position the diaphragm of the mic slightly upwards, right in the middle of the drum to avoid a rush of air going into the mic. also, putting the mic closer to the beater gives more of a pantera-like click (i find this sound to be a little over-done) while putting it further will emphasise the bottom end. Ive never tried micing the kick from the outside, but ive seen live footage of led zep where the mic is on the outside and the recording sounds great.

also, i've been told to put the bass and the kick tracks on track 1 and 8. i guess these tracks are the most vulnerable to physical damage since they are on the outside of the actual tape and lower frequencies are less likely to deteriorate.

this advice is all based on my own understanding of the recording process and any critisism is quite welcome.
 
No. I know how to mic and record drums already. I do it every day in the digital realm.

I was talking about tips in reference to recording drums with tape. Should I be trying to slam the meters to get tape compression? From my limited experience with tape and this machine, I would think that "slamming" the meters with overheads is a no-no. I would not want any distortion on my overheads. How about kick/snare/toms? I am looking to get some different sounds. I am tired of the stale sounding digital drums. I have worked on transfering dry digital drum tracks that I have previously recorded to the tape machine. I find too much volume creates distortion on tape (sound breaking up). Should I aim for "0" on the meters for the loudest hits -OR- should I allow for some loud hits to hit +6-8? What do most people do on these machines?

I plan on using all eight tracks for drums on Sunday. The band I am working with has a decent sized kit. I usually commit 7-12 tracks for drums when I track in digital. I like to have options open (ie: hat mic, bottom snare mic) when I mix drums. I may not use all tracks all of the time, however.
 
let it go into the red. analog distortion sounds a lot better than digital distortion.
i don't use a compressor or NR, so i always try to do a test recording first and get the levels as high as possible without too much distortion.
Recording drums on tape is all i know, so im not sure what to tell you to do differently from digital.
 
In my ignorance I once drove the vocals (a prepared piece of gibberish I had recorded on a UHER 4000) into the red with noise reduction enabled. I mean completely maxed-out. I rather liked the distortion it produced although it was admittedly a very experimental piece of music and I was trying to achieve something like that in the first place.

But generally you don't want to overload with NR enabled as it can produce decoding errors. No, I still don't know quite what it sounds like.
 
Pappy999,
In regard to how hard you should hit the tape keep in mind the internal dbx can mis-track if the levels are too hot. This is especially true on low frequencies. A lot of users dis the Tascam dbx saying it muddies up the sound but I think a lot of that comes from not setting levels correctly. Experiment but I think you'll find the best results are keeping the levels just below the red especially with kick and bass. The term "slammin the tape" which is so popular these days I think is more applicable to large format machines (1 inch 8,2 inch 16) then the smaller format Tascam's. I know my msr-16 and ms-16 are most happy with levels just under the red :) You don't need to bury the meters to add a little analog flavor to your drum tracks. Good luck and let us know how your session goes. Regards, Dave
 
I think that the biggest problem is people having the notion that when recording to tape, one must always "slam" the meters into the red, no matter what is being recorded. You add dbx to the equation and they still believe it's a good idea..... and I don't mean transients peaking just past 0db but really pushing those pins way, way up there, which is not a good idea. I personally would stay away from that line of thinking.
 
To add, dont even look at the meters. They are for avoiding distortion. You are wanting distortion.
Listen to the sound. Ignore the meters....in this case only.

Cheers Tim
 
Tim Gillett said:
To add, dont even look at the meters. They are for avoiding distortion. You are wanting distortion.
Listen to the sound. Ignore the meters....in this case only.

Cheers Tim
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pappy999 is using a TSR-8 which is a two head deck and won't allow him to do what you're suggesting.

With a 3 head deck, where the engineer can listen to the third head as the talent plays live, yes; I'd agree to that being a viable method of quickly achieving the desired amount of harmonic distortion.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
pappy999 is using a TSR-8 which is a two head deck and won't allow him to do what you're suggesting.

With a 3 head deck, where the engineer can listen to the third head as the talent plays live, yes; I'd agree to that being a viable method of quickly achieving the desired amount of harmonic distortion.

Cheers! :)
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Sure but I wasnt thinking specifically of 2 or 3 head, just the principle of listening to the playback. It's impossible for us to tell him how far into the red he should drive it. A listening test, whether 3 head or 2 head is the best way. That's what I meant.
If the meters are still giving a reading and not pegged out when he's got the distortion he's happy with, he can use that as a reference, but again, that applies with 2 or 3 heads. 2 heads are just more indirect and inconvenient.


Cheers Tim
 
Yeah, I agree… you can use your ears, though it's more time consuming with a 2-head deck.

One thing that’s important though is that you know what flux level is at zero on your machine. I’m not sure we know that yet.

If using dbx I say keep percussive material below 0Vu. However if using it with dbx off then push it a little for some saturation. Keep in mind with TASCAM's 8-track head layout the individual tracks are virtually the same width as 2-inch 24-track, but with a wee bit less separation between tracks. You can certainly push it a little for effect.

There is one caveat… if the flux level is already cranked for tape like 996, then you are already pushing standard tape at 0Vu. That’s why it’s so important to know your machine’s current calibration status.

Somebody already mentioned this, but saturation/compression isn’t the only quality of analog tape. IMO, the rounding and “smearing” of transients even at lower flux levels is quite pleasing to the ear. You don’t have to run high levels for the difference between digital and analog to be apparent.

:)
 
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