TSR-8 odd sound after recording?

mamm7215

mamm7215

Member
So I'm bouncing some stems down to my TSR-8 this weekend and all was good. Recorded well and played back great through my summing mixer and into Sonar (I like to go to tape and master of the TSR-8 sometimes). After a while the recordings sounded bad, like the low end was ok but it lost a lot of high end and what was there sounded phasey and muddy. Would this indicate it's time to demagnetize? I have a Han-d-mag but it was late when I finished and didn't have time to drag it out and retest so I thought I'd post. I'll have a chance to test it out a bit later but have to travel for work today as well.
Thanks.
 
mamm7215 said:
So I'm bouncing some stems down to my TSR-8 this weekend and all was good. Recorded well and played back great through my summing mixer and into Sonar (I like to go to tape and master of the TSR-8 sometimes). After a while the recordings sounded bad, like the low end was ok but it lost a lot of high end and what was there sounded phasey and muddy. Would this indicate it's time to demagnetize? I have a Han-d-mag but it was late when I finished and didn't have time to drag it out and retest so I thought I'd post. I'll have a chance to test it out a bit later but have to travel for work today as well.
Thanks.
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Your heads might need to be de-magged and they may be dirty. Look at them closely with a magnifying glass and flashlight. The tiniest specks of tape residue can cause havoc.
VP
 
I would first check how clean and residue free the heads are. Be sure that the tape is not sludging off the oxide, abnormally.
 
Yeah I did clean them several times after the high end loss but I'll inspect closer when I get the chance.
 
Dirty heads would have been the first thing I would have suggested. Since you did that, what about the tape? Is it any good?
 
When cleaning, make sure you're using those lint free cotton make up remover pads and not q-tips along with 90% or higher iso alcohol. I suspect your tape may be showing problems and clogging the heads. As dodgeaspen already asked, what is the tape?
 
Hmm, I did use q tips...maybe I got some "q" stuck on the heads...the tape is 456 calibrated to +3 with my MRL tape. I got 6 rolls with the deck when I bought it. 3-4 were only used once. I also got 2 rolls of GP9 as well but don't feel like recalibrating, the 456 rolls seem fine. 2 rolls did have shed so I don't use them but the one I have on I haven't had sticking/flaking fouling issues before, not to say it's not happening now.
 
mamm7215 said:
the tape is 456 calibrated to +3 with my MRL tape. I got 6 rolls with the deck when I bought it.
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And would that be Ampex or Quantegy 456?

I have an old Webber test tape recorded on Ampex 406. It gunked up the heads with white goo, but before that happened it totally shot the high frequencies, much like what you're describing.
 
cjacek said:
When cleaning, make sure you're using those lint free cotton make up remover pads and not q-tips along with 90% or higher iso alcohol. I suspect your tape may be showing problems and clogging the heads. As dodgeaspen already asked, what is the tape?
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Thanks for the info about the q-tips cjacek. I didn't know not to use them. I'll go out and buy some of the makeup remover things. Have a point or two on me.;)
 
dodgeaspen said:
Thanks for the info about the q-tips cjacek. I didn't know not to use them. I'll go out and buy some of the makeup remover things. Have a point or two on me.;)
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Thanks man!:D

The q-tips actually are not very effective or thorough enough for cleaning larger heads (I'd use 'em only on cassette deck heads). Not that the q-tips will ruin anything but they're useless, in my experience, for open reel.
 
mamm7215 said:
Hmm, I did use q tips...maybe I got some "q" stuck on the heads...the tape is 456 calibrated to +3 with my MRL tape. I got 6 rolls with the deck when I bought it. 3-4 were only used once. I also got 2 rolls of GP9 as well but don't feel like recalibrating, the 456 rolls seem fine. 2 rolls did have shed so I don't use them but the one I have on I haven't had sticking/flaking fouling issues before, not to say it's not happening now.
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It's just that q-tips are not very effective on larger heads. They're fine for small cassette deck heads but not open reel, in my experience.

As it was said earlier, that it's very important that you know the tape you're using and its history. You must be 100% certain that the tape you have is solid and doesn't have sticky shed or binder problems. It's very likely that it's the tape. I'd carefully clean the heads and then roll the problem tape and see what happens.
 
It's Quantegy Grand Master. I don't think I'll have time to put another reel on, maybe I'll fast forward 5 minutes or so and try again...if I have time...
 
Update: Ok so I fast forwarded about 10 mins on the tape and noticed that the deck seemed to labour at times while turning. I recorded again and the playback was a bit better, not so phasey but still a noticeable high end loss (but not as bad). This was without cleaning again first so it would seem the tape is suspect. I won't have another chance to dig in before the weekend but this is leading in the right direction. At least I have more tape...
 
I've been using the makeup remover pads for a couple years now after cjacek made the suggestion...they are the bees-knees as far as cleaning the larger open reel heads and guides. Its impossible to get in the crannies of the guides with a cotton swab, but the pads work fabulous. Nice for cleaning pinch rollers too (using dilute window cleaner or just water).

Mamm, if you are confident that the tape you have came from the factory in the boxes they are now in, tell us what the address for Quantegy is...is it in California or Alabama?
 
I can't right now as I'm officially travelling...I'll be back Friday night at home to check. I'm suspicious my reel motors seemed like they were bogging down as I fast-forwarded through the meat of the reels though. I'll def. keep you all posted about what I find...
 
Update: So I cleaned and demagged the deck, and then I put another reel on (I had tested it before and marked it good:no shed). Re-recorded my stems and played them back and it was a bit better but still dark and phasey. So I switched the phase on one of my N72 pres that I was running the summed mix back through and LO! it appears I have phase issues through my pre's. I then put the summed mix through 2 of the pres on the front of my Konnekt48 and all seems well again...so interesting, although the previous tape did seem to be binding...looks like I'll have to pull my pres and scope them to see if I need to adjust them at all. Maybe I'll recalibrate the deck too...
 
Update 2: Well it still seems there's a low end loss and a bit of phaseyness, even with a newer tape on (could still be the tape I guess). Effect is still there whether or not recording with DBX. I may try recording something else to it just to see if it's not the mix getting to the deck (some plugin or something)...

Hmmm I'm editing this because I just tried recording another stereo mix to the deck (only 2 tracks, not 8) and it sounded fine. Must be something in my mix out of phase because of some plugins or something. When I mix down in my DAW it sounds fine but when I send out to the TSR-8 I get phase issues...this'll be fun to track down...
 
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