TS or TRS cables for my patchbay

F

Foo-bu

New member
Hey guys, I'm looking into getting a snake for my patchbay and was wondering if I should be looking to get TRS cables or TS. The majority of my patchbay is hooked up to my Digi002 and then the rest of it is preamps and compressors.

I currently have a TS snake for 8 of the channels and that seems to do the job but i wasn't sure if I'm losing any quality by not having TRS.

Aren't TRS cables for stereo?
Is there a signal difference betwen the two? I think one is supposed to be ballanced and the other isn't. am i wrong?

Thanks!
 
TRS plugs are superior to TS plugs because TRS is a fully balanced cable, which offers the most resistance to interference and resists hum and other bad sounds.

TRS should not be confused with Stereo plugs, as they are meant for different purposes. A headphone uses a stereo plug, not a TRS. A TRS plug is essentially the same as an XLR, just in a different form.

I would switch the snake to TRS if you've been experiencing issues regarding interference and hum or noise. Actually, I'd do that period, seeing as though most decent recording equipment SHOULD use TRS or XLR wiring.
 
thanks for the help! I'm assuming then that I would have to also use TRS patch cables for the front of the patchbay as well?
 
jaykeMURD said:
TRS plugs are superior to TS plugs because TRS is a fully balanced cable, which offers the most resistance to interference and resists hum and other bad sounds.
Click to expand...

At distances longer than 20', this is true. But under 20', unbalanced (Tip-Sleeve....TS) cables offer adequate shielding.

jaykeMURD said:
TRS should not be confused with Stereo plugs, as they are meant for different purposes. A headphone uses a stereo plug, not a TRS. A TRS plug is essentially the same as an XLR, just in a different form.
Click to expand...

TRS and "Stereo plugs" are identical. They are the SAME THING. TRS = Tip-Ring-Sleeve, which is a stereo cable. And while a TRS cable has three conductors like an XLR cable does, it is NOT "essentially the same as an XLR", they are two totally different styles of connectors, and each have a valid purpose of existence in the audio world.
 
The first thing you need to know overall is IF your patchbay is TRS or TS. These days, I don't think manufactures are making strictly TS patchbays like they did in the old days. But if you have an older Furman patchbay, it might be a TS.

Anyway, I would outfit everything with TRS. Even if you have some unbalanced connections, the TRS connections will work just fine. You can't however make TRS connections work on a TS patchbay.
 
Generally, TRS is reccomended over TS. First, I would see what your equipment uses/recommends. If it uses unbalanced outputs, then I would stay with TS cables. If it uses balanced outputs, I would make sure to use TRS cables. It is also imprtant, like mentioned above, to make sure that your patchbay is TRS. If it is TS and you use TRS cables, there is a good chance you will lose some signal level.

Just to be clear, make sure you see what the wiring scheme is on your equipment, especially if you are using older or European based equipment. Make sure that all of your equipment is pin 2 hot. Also, do not assume blindly that +4 is the same as balanced. There is equipment out there that uses +4 unbalanced.
 
To pick up on what's been said, remember that the "balance" in a balanced cable refers to the nature of the signal, not the nature of the cable. TRS cables are three conducter, shielded cables. The work as stereo cables, insert cables, and as balanced cables. Each use involves a signal of a peculiar nature. We call them balanced cables because that's a common use; a TS cable cannot carry a balanced signal. It will carry one leg as an unbalanced signal.

Do a search here on the term "balanced" and you will find a lot of good information. But the bottom line is a balanced signal incorporates a simple but extremely effective method of noise reduction - losing the cable static. Because that problem happens when the cable becomes an antenna, longer cable runs will pick up more noise - they are better antennae. For short runs and patch cords, there might be a measurable difference between balanced and unbalanced, but you'll not likely hear it. But when in doubt, go for a balanced signal if you can. Most equipment can function with either TS or TRS.
 
Guys, cables are NOT balanced or unbalanced, the signal traveling through the cable can be balanced or ubalanced. A TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) cable can transmit a balanced or an unbalanced signal.
Depending on what kind of signal you need to carry, hence the cable you should go and buy.

Carlos
 
carlosguardia said:
Guys, cables are NOT balanced or unbalanced, the signal traveling through the cable can be balanced or ubalanced. A TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) cable can transmit a balanced or an unbalanced signal.
Depending on what kind of signal you need to carry, hence the cable you should go and buy.

Carlos
Click to expand...

Didn't Treeline basically say this same thing?
 
Cable are NOT balanced or unbalanced? Why it is true that you can run unbalanced sign down a balanced cable, try running a balanced connection down a unbalanced cable! ;)
 
Ford Van said:
Cable are NOT balanced or unbalanced? Why it is true that you can run unbalanced sign down a balanced cable, try running a balanced connection down a unbalanced cable! ;)
Click to expand...

It's clear that the cable isn't the only thing getting unbalanced here... :D :D
 
well it turns out that apparently my patchbay is a TS only bay. so i guess that answers things. I wish I had known at the time when I bought it :P
 
You can use a TRS cable in a TS patchpanel. The questions is, what is the configuration of the component you ultimately plan to connect to? If the device say, a mic pre is pinned out as a TRS, then you'll short the Ring and Sleve using the TS cable. Generally, I say, get a TRS patch panel and use TRS cables. It's hard to screw that up.
 
Ford Van said:
TRS and "Stereo plugs" are identical. They are the SAME THING. TRS = Tip-Ring-Sleeve, which is a stereo cable.
Click to expand...

Careful now. The connectors are identical, but the cables aren't necessarily wired the same way....

For TRS patch cables, the cable should be a single twisted pair with a shield around it. The tighter the twist, the better the noise rejection. By contrast, for optimal stereo separation, the cable should consist of two individually shielded wires. Most headphone cables I've cut open are wired this way, for example. Use a twisted pair and... well, the tighter the twist, the worse the stereo separation.

So the goals of a stereo cable and a TRS cable are diametrically opposed. You can wire them the same way, but you really shouldn't. :D

(Note that none of what I'm talking about here is likely to make an appreciable difference for a short run of cable.)
 
There is more mis-information in this thread than helpful input...

so to summarize, you are using a patchbay with TS connections and processors with TRS connections and TRS cables in between.
 
DigitalSmigital said:
so to summarize, you are using a patchbay with TS connections and processors with TRS connections and TRS cables in between.
Click to expand...

well as of right now, i have a TS patchbay with TS cables only.

I'm looking to add more cables to the bay and am gonna connect them to my DIGI002 inputs and outputs, DBX 586 preamp, Joe Meek VC3 and VC6, and dbx 163x compressor.

I just wasn't sure at the time I started the thread that I had a TS only patchbay and was unsure of whether or not there was a quality difference between the cables and if a ballanced TRS cable would even work with my gear. but now that I know I have a TS patchbay, I've come to terms with the fact that I'll either need to buy TS cables or upgrade my patchbay and TS cables to ballanced.
 
Foo-bu said:
well as of right now, i have a TS patchbay with TS cables only.

I'm looking to add more cables to the bay and am gonna connect them to my DIGI002 inputs and outputs, DBX 586 preamp, Joe Meek VC3 and VC6, and dbx 163x compressor.

I just wasn't sure at the time I started the thread that I had a TS only patchbay and was unsure of whether or not there was a quality difference between the cables and if a ballanced TRS cable would even work with my gear. but now that I know I have a TS patchbay, I've come to terms with the fact that I'll either need to buy TS cables or upgrade my patchbay and TS cables to ballanced.
Click to expand...

No.... There's nothing wrong with using TRS cables with a TS patchbay. You just won't get the benefits of a balanced signal path until you upgrade both the patchbay and the cables.
 
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