Tryin again - EQ and chunky sound

B

Bloomington

New member
Ok my first 2 posts here do not show any message - I have terrible luck with anything to do with a computer so pleassssse bear with me!

Two questions:

1) I normally see people writing here that you should limit or avoid EQing during recording - save it for mixdown. I sometimes use a Mackie 1604 board for it's preamps (into a Roland 880EX) When using the Mackie board what do I do with the EQ on it. For the Low and High I guess it would make sense to set them to their midpoints or unity gain but how about the sweepable mid-range???

2) I have recorded drums, guitar, bass and keyboards ( I am really new to this) kind of 60's rock and roll. While it sounds OK all of the instruments seem to stick out (kind of "chunky" sounding)rather than blend together even with some reverb. Any general hints. I know trying to describe sound is diificult.

Thanks!!!!!!!! :)
 
Bloomington said:


1) I normally see people writing here that you should limit or avoid EQing during recording - save it for mixdown. I sometimes use a Mackie 1604 board for it's preamps (into a Roland 880EX) When using the Mackie board what do I do with the EQ on it.
Click to expand...

Does this model mackie have a EQ disable switch? use it! If not, just leave everything at zero.


2) I have recorded drums, guitar, bass and keyboards ( I am really new to this) kind of 60's rock and roll. While it sounds OK all of the instruments seem to stick out (kind of "chunky" sounding)rather than blend together even with some reverb. Any general hints. I know trying to describe sound is diificult.

Thanks!!!!!!!! :)
Click to expand...

play around with mic placement..and usually if the instruments sound "too chunky" to begin with..guess what?!!
 
Leave the sweepable mid's Gain knob centred, once it is you arent applying any cut or boost so it doesnt matter what you do with the Frequency knob. The standard way to bypass the Eq on Mackie boards is to plug a cable into the channel insert up to the first 'click' and connect that cable to the recorder's input.

You really need to try to explain the problem you are having with 'chunkiness' a bit more clearly.
 
Sounds like your describing tracks that could use some compression/limiting and also eq'ing. Somone here had the COOLEST page of eq'ing tips at different frequencies. One of the greatest little cheat sheets I've ever seen for eq.
Don't remember where I saw that...anyone?....
 
Oh Shit - I'm getting more aggresive since my new avatar!! EQ your fuckin head off if it works. I'm sick of hearing guys who have never made a commerical record in their lives tell everyone that you "Don't EQ, leave it flat, purity for purity's sake"

Bullshit!

I've EQ'd my head off all my life (30 years of recording) and I've EQ'd anything that didn't fit! Drastically sometimes ;)

cheers
john
 
John Sayers said:
Oh Shit - I'm getting more aggresive since my new avatar!! EQ your fuckin head off if it works. I'm sick of hearing guys who have never made a commerical record in their lives tell everyone that you "Don't EQ, leave it flat, purity for purity's sake"

Bullshit!

I've EQ'd my head off all my life (30 years of recording) and I've EQ'd anything that didn't fit! Drastically sometimes ;)

cheers
john
Click to expand...
Yikes!!!

Ed... ED!!! Is that you??????????

Oh sorry John, you sounded like Ed for a minute!!! ;)

Bruce
:D :D
 
Thanks for the advice!!! Both suggestions worked for the EQ on the board.

I have a lot of other basic questions but will hold off till I figure out how to word them and not sound totally imbicile
 
John (or is it Ed?????)

When you say you EQ your head off I assume you do it when initially recording each instrument. If so am I correct to assume you need to remember which freq's you boost or cut on each instrument so you do not apply the same freq cut or boost to others?

Is that thinking along the right track ( no pun intended)????

Thanks guys
 
John Sayers said:
Oh Shit - I'm getting more aggresive since my new avatar!! EQ your fuckin head off if it works. I'm sick of hearing guys who have never made a commerical record in their lives tell everyone that you "Don't EQ, leave it flat, purity for purity's sake"

Bullshit!

I've EQ'd my head off all my life (30 years of recording) and I've EQ'd anything that didn't fit! Drastically sometimes ;)

cheers
john
Click to expand...


John, no one said to leave it flat for "purity's sake" the dude has a *mackie board* I told him to leave it flat because of that..also, that's what he asked. :)
 
When you say "chunky" I assume you are refferring to electric guitar....

You have to have the sound you want firmly in mind before you start. Just trying different settings with no clear goal in mind is a waste of time. Find a cd that has the sound you want on it and use it as reference..


1) Start by getting the sound you want out of your amp

2) mike the amp in a way that most closely captures this sound. Try setting the mikes in different places till it sounds good out of the monitoring headphones

3)test record a few bars and playback

4)if it doesnt sound how you want it start eq'ing on your amps first then go back to step 3

5) If all else fails start eq'ing on the board you use

6) if you want a bigger sound then try re-tracking (double and triple tracking). You wont play it exactly 100% the same on the new tracks and at mix down this will give it a thicker, fuller sound

You will always eq later but it shouldnt be too much. The recorded sound should be damn close to what you want


I am no expert but I have done alot of recording over the last year and a half and am making good money doing it already. Even though I'm in the learning phase really still (arent you always?)
 
I agree with John S. and enemyofthesun. Try to capture the sound coming out of the instrument as close as you can. Then apply eq to get it to sound right. If it souds right, then it is right, period.

I have been recording for some 20 years and have always found that if you can get the sound you are after to tape or disk then life when mixing becomes a whole lot easier.
 
I'm changing the subject, but John (or anyone), along the lines of eq-ing like crazy, I've seen a lot of "professional" advice not to compress vocals too much, like keeping it around 2:1, but I suspect that this is bullshit also. Assuming a good but not great singer, what do pros really do? And then they compress a lot again when mixing down, right? C'mon, I won't tell....
 
Two things.

1. Yes people use compression and while tracking they will use up to a 10:1 ratio in certain situations.
BUT....
A. They will ask the singer to get his act together and compensate by working the mic rather then over compress.
B. The compressor should indicate NO gain reduction MOST of the time.


As for John and his "Eq ike crazy".......
I'm sure John could give me lessons any day and that when it's needed to improve the sound, then Eqing like crazy might be a solution. Every body cuts/boosts here and there.
BUT........
I humbly suggest you work on the source first.
No Eq can save your ass if you are having tonal problems from the start.
It's like you can spend $4000 on a wonderfull mic only to record it in your bedroom and have it sound like a $100 mic.
Do you think you can buy a Cheap guitar and make it sound good with EQ?.
What do you think is better - boost 10kHz to brighten your shitty sound and by this adding noise and god knows what else?!?!? , or to work at getting a better sound by mic place/change of source itself etc......

When you get to the mix and still have problems then knock yourself out, but mark my word. If it sounds like shit coming in, it will sound like shit coming out.
 
1) I'm using a 1604 into a PC for tracking. Unless I really feel I need some low cut or something while tracking, I just go from the channels' insert-sends direct to my soundcard. The insert will bypass everything but the preamp circuit. If you hook up that way, the faders won't affect the level going to the recorder-- only the trim knob needs to be set for the recording level. You'll have to work out the routing for monitoring the track while you're recording, but there's a million ways to do that. I'm not sure if the 880's EQ is going to be a much better choice than the Mackie, though. I'd limit the use of either EQ as much as possible, personally.

2) There's a lot of things that might be causing what you're describing. If you're overdubbing, it can be hard to keep the feel consistent among the seperate takes. That might make everything stick out without blending. You might have too much stuff fighting to be "out in front" of the mix. Generally, it's hard to have more than a couple of things "out in front" at any given moment of the song. I'm just guessing here, though. Post a good quality MP3 sound-clip if you can.
 
pglewis

You have put into better words what I was trying to describe as "chunky" sound - yes everything seems to be out in front - drums, a couple of guitars and keys - even when an instruments fader is pulled way down it still seems to be not sitting well. ( or fader down low enough not there at all - obviously).

A little reverb and compression overall has helped it but some is good and more is not better!!!!

I will keep working at it and try to get a good sound down first.

Thanks to all again!
 
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