Tracking Levels (...yeah i know) urgent

mitosis

mitosis

New member
A thousand post and a thousand answers on tracking levels on this forum and yet I still can find no confirmation regarding my specific problem. I'm posting this in the Newbies forum becuase I don't want to bother the other areas. I hope someone can answer this question quickly becuase I have a guy laying down drum tracks tomorrow morning. Heres the deal:

My main question is are my levels too hot and are they going to cause me problems later? I'm tracking drums and just running 7 mics into two MG10/2s hooked together. My preamps are set correctly and the meter on the mixer shows that at full playing volume, the meter stays at around +1 to +3 and occasionally hits +5. The mix never peaks on the meter though.

I then run that into a firewire interface. The analog input on that is set to the highest possible level: "0". (I have a feeling this is part of the problem.)

I record using n-track and don't adjust the levels on there (it is set at +0.0).

My playback volume is pretty low (lower than normal music volume on my computer). I know that this is normal during tracking. But if I apply compression and limiting to the drum tracks I recorded it is still much quieter than comparable solo drum tracks.

I have a feeling that my levels are too hot to begin with and I just need some confirmation on that and some suggestions on what part of the chain to turn down the levels so I can get more volume. Or am I completely retarded and should quit now?

Thanks a lot.
 
I'll give it a poke...

Well IMHO I'd say there may be two things going on...

1) I think your input levels on your FW interface are too hot...
When you record digitally, record at a lower level - Once the signal comes in, you can normalize this as necessary to bring the volume up to a higher level...


2) The other thing I'm thinking is that perhaps with the two mixers you're cancelling out your mics... (?)
Are all the mics panned direct center?
Do you use one mixer for the "right channel" and one mixer for the "left channel"? Try panning your mics around the stereo spectrum even though they are going only to one input...

I'm wondering if that won't help your issue...

Hope this helps...
 
Thanks for the response. I guess the analog to digital part was screwing me up. I read that you keep digital lower for better headroom but wasn't sure about analog.

For my mixers, I have them hooked up in parallel with an RCA cable. I mainly use only one though and have the kick, snare, and left and right overheads. I hae them connected like this: An RCA cable connects the REC OUT of the minor mixer into either the 2TR IN or channels 7 & 8 on the mixer. THe minor mixer only does toms so I don't think I'm getting cancellation.
 
(A) Don't normalize. Ever. No reason for it at all. Not that it isn't less damaging than recording too hot of a signal...

(2) The analog to digital part shouldn't screw anyone up - 0dBVU is 0dBVU no matter what. Digital just has more headroom than tape. The signal is the same volume with either medium.

(E) And don't think that the drum itself and the guy hitting them don't have a HUGE impact on the apparent volume and energy of the recording - The "normal music" you're comparing to likely was made with *teams* of industry professionals at every single step utilizing some of the finest equipment available.
 
Sounds Good...

Hi John...
Thanks for the info...

I have a question though...
I read somewhere else on this board that a digital signal is different from an analog signal... So, If I record a digital signal into my system - I should record it at a lower level so the signal won't be affected by digital distortion... I believe I heard someone say that -6 or more would be good...

But, if you record at that level / and you cannot normalize a signal / How do you recoup that lowered level so it gives you a strong signal for your mix?
 
the old, 16-bit school of thought was to record as hot as you can without clipping to take advantage of every bit and to try and avoid errors/noise floor issues. Analog recording also gave us pleasing sounds when recording a little too hot.
with a 24-bit system there is no need for that anymore. We have plenty of dynamic range available so you can just set your levels lower so as to avoid any accidental clipping that may occurr.

Normalization is just a waste of time as all it is is a sort of automated volume gain. The problem with it is how it goes about raising your volume. It searches out for the loudest peak in the track and raises everything in relative to that. So even if you have a single transient that may have popped up to .5dBFS, and the rest of the track resides around -12dB or so....the whole mix is only going to increase by as much as .4dB. A waste of time.

Track your levels in a 24-bit environment with a safety net so you don't accidently distort. If you need to raise the level of the track then just raise the fader up. Add a compressor or limiter to tame the peaks...or better yet, draw in volume automation.
You can always raise the volume of a track that's recorded to quiet...you can't fix a distorted track though, so don't risk it.
 
Massive Master said:
(A) Don't normalize. Ever. No reason for it at all. Not that it isn't less damaging than recording too hot of a signal...

(2) The analog to digital part shouldn't screw anyone up - 0dBVU is 0dBVU no matter what. Digital just has more headroom than tape. The signal is the same volume with either medium.

(E) And don't think that the drum itself and the guy hitting them don't have a HUGE impact on the apparent volume and energy of the recording - The "normal music" you're comparing to likely was made with *teams* of industry professionals at every single step utilizing some of the finest equipment available.
Click to expand...

Analog has more headroom than digital. Analog is much more forgiving at the threshold of distorting.
 
I mean the medium itself - The best analog tape might be able to handle transients of +7 or so. Digital can easily handle twice that. Again, it depends on how the converters are calibrated, but anywhere from +14 to +20 isn't unusual at all.

But of course, the front end gear is falling apart by the time the signal gets there. The headroom is there just like the headroom is there in analog equipment - Not to support the entire signal.

@ Riverdog - The "sheer volume" portion of the project is normally handled during the mastering phase. *IF* the project was well cared-for as far as levels are concerned with plenty of headroom at every single step on every single track, it should fare pretty well with the "abuse" the M.E. might dish out.
 
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