Tracking a whole band all at once

[mrhotapples]

This is the route my band wants to take when we record our album (We need to write two-three more songs and work out transitions and inbetween noodly bits so this is a ways off) because it'll definitely preserve the feeling we lose when we track separately. We'd like to use my equipment, plus rent some extra if it will cost less than going into a real studio to track.

We'll be doing it in a 20x20 garage and I've already tracked drums for demos with the whole band blasting just as we would practice, and the bleed isn't bad at all, it gives depth to the overdubs. But what are some ways we can minimize bleed without turning the amps down?

I ask myself if it's logical to do this and if we'd be better off doing at least the rhythm tracks in a nice studio. Someone jump on my shoulder.

Where can you rent equipment for cheap too? We'd need another firewire interface with at most four preamps, and a few 57s to put on the guitar cabs to make it easier to work with volume differences between clean/distorted guitars.

Help would be sweet!

 

[Daveg62]

I just did a 10 song demo for a band that we tracked all in one take. I think it came out really good. A couple tips - keep instrument amps as low as possible, if possible go DI with bass or anything else you can, give the drummer headphones instead of a monitor, make sure the monitors aren't blasting into any mics and only put in the monitors what you need. You can acheive great results if you take the time to set things up right. Hopefully you have some sound treatment in your garage because that would be key also. Try to keep volumes as low as possible, you can always add or re-do tracks later if you're not liking your guitar sounds for instance.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

This is the route my band wants to take when we record our album... We'd like to use my equipment, plus rent some extra if it will cost less than going into a real studio to track.

For what purpose is the album? if you're cutting something where you'e planning on making and selling more than 100 copies, I'd recommend taking it to the pros and going into a studio and doing it right. As far as cost difference, that depends on what you have already, but consider the cost in time and labor doing it yourselves versus the efficiency of going to experience.

We'll be doing it in a 20x20 garage and I've already tracked drums for demos with the whole band blasting just as we would practice, and the bleed isn't bad at all, it gives depth to the overdubs.

Doesn't overdubbing a live tracking klind of ovbiate the need to do the full live tracking to begin with? If you can overdub without loosing the groove you should be able to track seperately and so the same thing. Have you considered doing a simple and imperfect live recording and using that just as a headphone track to follow while recording isolated instruments for the real deal? It's just like overdubbing to a live mix, except the overdub lasts for longer than one or two bars .

But what are some ways we can minimize bleed without turning the amps down?

Hanging moving blankets and homemade gobos. Look up "gobo" in the studio building forum and on Ask.com for ways to do it cheaply..

Where can you rent equipment for cheap too? We'd need another firewire interface with at most four preamps, and a few 57s to put on the guitar cabs to make it easier to work with volume differences between clean/distorted guitars.

That depends upon where you are. If you are anywhere near a big city, look in the Yellow Pages for stage or theatrical equipment supply and rental.

G.

 

[pezking]

Try to position your microphones so that their dead axes are pointing towards what you don't want to pick up.

As has been said already, amps quiet. DI is good too. Consider using a DI guitar with amp modeling software for the guitars? There are a few good free amp sims out there.

Definitely overdub the vocals. Try to keep quiet instruments away from the drum kit, or any loud source.

Where you live will determine where you can rent from...

 

[Elton Bear]

Amp Modelling? DI is a good idea but surely re-amping would be much better...

 

[mrhotapples]

For what purpose is the album? if you're cutting something where you'e planning on making and selling more than 100 copies, I'd recommend taking it to the pros and going into a studio and doing it right. As far as cost difference, that depends on what you have already, but consider the cost in time and labor doing it yourselves versus the efficiency of going to experience.Doesn't overdubbing a live tracking klind of ovbiate the need to do the full live tracking to begin with? If you can overdub without loosing the groove you should be able to track seperately and so the same thing. Have you considered doing a simple and imperfect live recording and using that just as a headphone track to follow while recording isolated instruments for the real deal? It's just like overdubbing to a live mix, except the overdub lasts for longer than one or two bars .Hanging moving blankets and homemade gobos. Look up "gobo" in the studio building forum and on Ask.com for ways to do it cheaply..That depends upon where you are. If you are anywhere near a big city, look in the Yellow Pages for stage or theatrical equipment supply and rental.

G.

We'd be overdubbing solos and miscellaneous bits and pieces, adding on guitar in certain places, just to beef things up. I was referring to how that stuff sits I guess.

But you brought up a good point...What we're doing is very very important to us, important enough that we may just come up with the cash to do the live bits in as nice a place as possible. But we're all broke and I can do a 'well enough' job here if we take special care. So I dunno. Food for thought.

 

[mrhotapples]

Try to position your microphones so that their dead axes are pointing towards what you don't want to pick up.

As has been said already, amps quiet. DI is good too. Consider using a DI guitar with amp modeling software for the guitars? There are a few good free amp sims out there.

Definitely overdub the vocals. Try to keep quiet instruments away from the drum kit, or any loud source.

Where you live will determine where you can rent from...

The hardest thing with that's overheads, their off-axis is the ceiling, hah.

I wish we could use amp modelling but both me and the other guitarist have put way too much money into sweet tube amplifiers to put it to waste.

thank you for the advice everybody!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

But you brought up a good point...What we're doing is very very important to us, important enough that we may just come up with the cash to do the live bits in as nice a place as possible. But we're all broke and I can do a 'well enough' job here if we take special care. So I dunno. Food for thought.

Well, I *do* like the fact that you're at least thinking of rentals instead of buying, as buying the gear could very easily far exceed the costs of a studio. But even then, if you're going to rent, don't waste your time with another Firepod and a few '57s, rent some good stuff; a couple of channels of quality preamp, and a few quality microphones will take you a lot further. Otherwise it's like walking into a Tiffany's to rent something to wear for Oscar night and walking out wearing stuff you could have bought at
K-Mart.

If it's *that* important, and you really want an album to make a name and money, my honest advice is that you have to get serious abut it. Believe me, i mean absolutely zero offense here, but you have to honestly answer the fololowing questions: are you guys good enough? And if you are, are you actually ready to record? Do you already have some kind of following through live gigs through which you can guarantee yourself that you can sell X number of CDs that won't just collect dust in your closet, and through which you can spread the good word to the uninitiated?

If you can answer "yes" to all those questions, Then I'd say, "Don't f*ck around, do it the right way," the right way including finding a backer or backers - be it family or friends or a real business manager - that'll front your studio costs as an investment in your future. If you're that good, you should be able to scrape up the money.

If you can't answer "yes" to all those questions, then take a reality check and ask yourself if you are *really* ready to cut an album yet, or whether you might be a little over-anxious and jumping the gun a little bit.

I have no idea. You could be The Next Beatles or REM or Coldplay for all I know. All I'm saying is that if that's even close to the case, don't open the door of opportunity in a half-assed way.

G.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

in addition to gobos, the placement of the instruments and mics is critical to reducing bleed in tracks

stick the drums in a corner somewhere by themselves...point the guitar amps towards the drums, and mic the kit so that the amps sit in the rejection region of the mics. mic the cabs so that the drums sit in their respective rejection regions. stick the bass amp as far away as possible, and record it via DI. for vocals, try running a mic into an input with no PA/monitoring and have the singer stand beyond the amps that are turned in to the drums, and facing the kit - again so that the mic rejects the drums...if the singer needs to hear himself, give him some phones, or OD the vocals afterwards.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

here's an extremely rudimentary diagram...i've tracked full bands using this same basic setup with no gobos or anything, and the bleed was barely audible

 

[mrhotapples]

Well, I *do* like the fact that you're at least thinking of rentals instead of buying, as buying the gear could very easily far exceed the costs of a studio. But even then, if you're going to rent, don't waste your time with another Firepod and a few '57s, rent some good stuff; a couple of channels of quality preamp, and a few quality microphones will take you a lot further. Otherwise it's like walking into a Tiffany's to rent something to wear for Oscar night and walking out wearing stuff you could have bought at
K-Mart.

If it's *that* important, and you really want an album to make a name and money, my honest advice is that you have to get serious abut it. Believe me, i mean absolutely zero offense here, but you have to honestly answer the fololowing questions: are you guys good enough? And if you are, are you actually ready to record? Do you already have some kind of following through live gigs through which you can guarantee yourself that you can sell X number of CDs that won't just collect dust in your closet, and through which you can spread the good word to the uninitiated?

If you can answer "yes" to all those questions, Then I'd say, "Don't f*ck around, do it the right way," the right way including finding a backer or backers - be it family or friends or a real business manager - that'll front your studio costs as an investment in your future. If you're that good, you should be able to scrape up the money.

If you can't answer "yes" to all those questions, then take a reality check and ask yourself if you are *really* ready to cut an album yet, or whether you might be a little over-anxious and jumping the gun a little bit.

I have no idea. You could be The Next Beatles or REM or Coldplay for all I know. All I'm saying is that if that's even close to the case, don't open the door of opportunity in a half-assed way.

G.

Since I posted this, I've called around and found that the best studio around here is 1200 dollars a day in their smaller room (Morrisound) and the cheapest project studio with better gear and space than I have is 350. We all talked and we're going to track separately and as metronomically as possible so that we can have an abundance of our friends do guest instruments and vocals without them having too much trouble playing with us, so all of that mess is out the window and I've learned a lot of good techniques that'll help with demoing the rest of our stuff. Thank you guys so much, there's shit I wouldn't have ever thought of. Siiimple shit.

We're definitely good, we have a following, and we'd be able to sell CDs like hotcakes. It's just that we've got a LOT of things we want to do and we're not sure if we want to spend the (at least) 2 grand, whether it's our money or a backer's, to record in a good studio if this ends up being what we may look back on as our worst work, heh.

I think it's similar to going out to a nice restaurant, going to McDonalds or TRYING to cook at home. The nice restaurant will be sweet, and almost guarantee'd success. McDonalds would be like going to a small-time studio with marginally better equipment than I have, paying money that could have bought/upgraded/rented gear and hoping that we won't get diarrhea from having to deal with the possible incompetency and conflicts versus the owners of the studio. Then cooking at home, hey, if I'm careful, I'm a great fucking cook, and I'm really happy with the way our recordings turn out when we take the time to logically build and track them.

In the end, I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that we'll sound good no matter where we record, we're all very 'locked down', perfection-minded people. It's just trying to find the cheapest way of doing it.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I think it's similar to going out to a nice restaurant, going to McDonalds or TRYING to cook at home. The nice restaurant will be sweet, and almost guarantee'd success. McDonalds would be like going to a small-time studio with marginally better equipment than I have, paying money that could have bought/upgraded/rented gear and hoping that we won't get diarrhea from having to deal with the possible incompetency and conflicts versus the owners of the studio. Then cooking at home, hey, if I'm careful, I'm a great fucking cook, and I'm really happy with the way our recordings turn out when we take the time to logically build and track them.

Just remember that you're not just making a meal for a Saturday date for some gal you met in the produce department, you're catering your only daughter's wedding.

Well, it can go either way. I was just providing one point of view that usually finds itself in the minority in a forum that is almost by definition all about DIY. Only you guys can decide what's best for you. I sincerely wish you the best of luck either way.

G.