Track Bounce confusion

SteveM

SteveM

New member
If I'm bouncing 2 tracks to one to be in sync with a 4th track, what is the track arming set up like?

Of course the track being recorded to is in source/rec...

... and while recording a live signal the tracks you're playing with need to be in sync mode to play back in sync with the pre recorded tracks, but is it the same when bouncing tracks already on the tape? Should the two tracks I'm bouncing be in repro or in sync. I didn't really want to bounce the tracks in sync but if that's what I do.....

I think my dyslexia is kicking in.
 
I'm wondering now if I bounce the tracks in repro, they'll be out of sync while recording, but will be IN sync when I play it back??

There's probably only one way to do this and I haven't done it in so long I've forgotten.
 
ha, I know the dyslexia thing you're talking about (been there) !

you're on an Ampex 440 4-track, right? here's the deal --

Here's a few options:

* Option 1 - record on 1, 2, 4. Bounce 1, 2, 4 to 3 in REPRO mode. overdub on 1, 2. Bounce 1, 2 to 4 in SYNC mode. Record on 1, 2. This will give you 7 tracks total. You can always play live parts while bouncing (in SYNC mode only) for more tracks as well. The tracks bounced in SYNC mode will sound different (some frequency loss). probably worse but they actually sound cooler in SYNC for some things on my Scully 280.

* Option 2 - record on 1, 2, 4. Bounce 1, 2, 4 to 3 in REPRO mode. overdub on 1, 2. Bounce 1, 2, 3 to 4 in REPRO mode. Record on 1, 2, 3. This will give you 8 tracks total and better fidelity on your overdubbed tracks, but two bounces (worse fidelity) on your original tracks.

Keep in mind you cannot bounce to adjacent tracks in SYNC, only REPRO. You've got to plan it out leaving the space.

Best bet for you right with what you've got on the tape is bounce the three tracks you've recorded to the 4th track in REPRO mode -- without overdubbing the live part. Then add the live part on one of the open tracks.

Here's how I've been using my 4-track in combination with 440 mono machine:

Record on 1, 2, 3, 4. Mix 1, 2, 3, 4 from 4-track to mono deck while overdubbing the live part. This leaves me with 5 mixed tracks on a mono tape. Run the tape back into the 4-track on a fresh part of the tape on track 3. Overdub parts on 1, 2. Bounce 1, 2 in SYNC to 4 (adding a live part if needed as well). Record final parts on 1, 2. This gives me a total of 9-10 tracks. I make sure to choose which parts are going where based on how important they are to the song and the frequencies I want to emphasize on each part. For instance, things like glockenspiel, some little guitar leads, etc. sound fine with the mid-range honk of SYNC mode. And adding important elements as the final two tracks because they will have the clearest, fullest sound.

Keep in mind: back in the '60s, people bounced many many times before we got the final result. I've heard some Motown and Spector recordings had 5+ bounces ... these were generally from machine to machine though, but not always. Some Tommy James stuff ("I Think We're Alone Now", for instance) was made on a single Scully 280 4-track with multiple bounces. Of course, there were probably 3-4 guys playing at a time in each bounce, which helped a lot !

have fun !
 
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Thanks LWF, I think I need to bounce it in sync mode then.

What I have is this: I have track 3 open and what I need to do is bounce tracks 2 and 4 to track 3. Track 1 I need to keep where it is because I might have an issue with it and I want to keep it separate anyway. On this one I'm thinking I'm going to bounce 2 and then another 2 and then have 2 more open for overdubbs.

I actually did a bounce already in sync mode of tracks 2 and 4 to track 3 without a problem. Is bouncing to an adjacent track always a problem? Because it came out fine. I remember this not always being an issue. Sometimes you can experience feedback depending on how your set up is. It's good to plan it like you said though.
Can you tell me what the problems sometimes are with bouncing to an adjacent track so I can check it out.
 
I don't see how bouncing on tape is ever a problem because everything is already there. It's different if you're going from machine to machine {there may be syncing issues that make it not straightforward though by no means insurmountable - it's done all the time} but within the same machine, nah.
 
SteveM said:
Thanks LWF, I think I need to bounce it in sync mode then.

What I have is this: I have track 3 open and what I need to do is bounce tracks 2 and 4 to track 3. Track 1 I need to keep where it is because I might have an issue with it and I want to keep it separate anyway. On this one I'm thinking I'm going to bounce 2 and then another 2 and then have 2 more open for overdubbs.

I actually did a bounce already in sync mode of tracks 2 and 4 to track 3 without a problem. Is bouncing to an adjacent track always a problem? Because it came out fine. I remember this not always being an issue. Sometimes you can experience feedback depending on how your set up is. It's good to plan it like you said though.
Can you tell me what the problems sometimes are with bouncing to an adjacent track so I can check it out.
Click to expand...

I think you can get away with bouncing to adjacent tracks if the levels are low (I've done it on different machines in the past). My Scully will go into crazy oscillations if I try to do it with any kind of decent level. I would guess that you could run into phasing issues (you're essentially recording a little bit on the same track you're playing on), but if it's not noticeable, I wouldn't worry about it. I would say the most noticeable thing would be getting hiss/noise from the low volume you'll have to play and record at to avoid the feedback.
 
grimtraveller said:
I don't see how bouncing on tape is ever a problem because everything is already there. It's different if you're going from machine to machine {there may be syncing issues that make it not straightforward though by no means insurmountable - it's done all the time} but within the same machine, nah.
Click to expand...

You might be thinking of the later 2-head machines, perhaps? On these older 3-head decks, you have to select 'SYNC' or 'REPRO'. If you're in REPRO mode, what's playing back will be delayed from what's being recorded in real-time. If you're in SYNC mode, you're monitoring on the record head, which plays back with a lower-quality sound but allows you to overdub. So it is generally advisable to bounce from the REPRO head when possible (for better sound quality), but this does not allow you to overdub at the same time, or choose specific tracks to bounce. Essentially, if you do not arm each track properly, the result will be one or more track(s) out of sync with the other tracks.
 
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