too much bass

W

westg8

New member
Hey there. My band is recording a few demo songs on to my pc. I have a delta 44 soundcard and crappy monitors (actually its just stereo speakers). I'm in no way looking for perfection, but this definitely irritates me. It seems that the guitars have too much bass in them. The guitars then mush right into the bass guitar, which is, in my opinion, too bassy for a bass. Is there like a standard frequency limit on how low a guitar (mostly a distorted sound) or bass should be? I'm using Cool Edit Pro. I noticed it has a filtering feature where you can cut off or lower certain frequencies. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. As you can see, I'm quite a newbie at this so any comments would be great. Since I kind don't really have any money as of now, buying anything new is kinda out of the questions (i.e. new monitors). Thank you.

Steven
 
Well...a guitar low E string resonates at about 330Hz up to about 1975Hz (depending of whether the guitarist plays on the pickups or not...:)

Use those frequencies and cut some low stuff...

250 or so Hz on down ...adjust low end to taste.

Other than that "ballpark" you really have to use your ears when tracking and setting up the guitar amp sounds.
 
quite a lot of the time what you hear live is different to whats recorded, so perhaps play around with the amp settingsand don't listen too hard live (it may sound really crap), concentrate on the sound they give recorded....thats my 2c
 
Try backing the mic off the amp a bit, get away from that whole "proximity effect" thing... Plus, backing up and getting a little "room sound" can brighten things up a bit.

***Justin***
 
you're using more than one mic? or are you recording it all down to one track with one mic? i not familiar with c.e.p, but i'm sure there is some kind of parametric e.q with which you could eliminate the unwanted frequencies? this is just another option..
 
Getting your rythem guitarist to change his strumming techniqe to use less emphasis on the 5,6 strings or the bassist could play a little more tastefully and emphisize more on the lower octive of his instrument you will have a smoother sounding result and the arrangements wont sound so muddy.

the mid bass frequencies will sound awful when multiple instruments are fighting over that area.

If you track right in the first place then you wont have to eq out the mudd.;)
 
Thanks very much for all the input. For recording the guitar, I'm merely using the line out of the guitar. I know this isn't the best way to record, but I don't think micing the amp will get any better sound (i have a shure 14A i believe). I think it may be just a matter of recording too much bass to begin with. The bass guitar also plays a part i believe. It sounds mushy to begin with. Thanks for the range a guitar might have, but how bout the bass. I think the bass may be too bassy even for a bass. What frequency should i cut it off yet, if any? Thanks for all the great input.

p.s. also, if anyone cares to answer this as well - I've always had great problems getting the bass to not sound mushy - as in the notes are not clearly distinguished enough. Is there anything in C.E.P. that can help 'separate' the notes better, or is that wishful thinking. I know part of the problem is simply the bassists playing. Thanks again.

Steven
 
zip said:
Well...a guitar low E string resonates at about 330Hz up to about 1975Hz (depending of whether the guitarist plays on the pickups or not...:)
Click to expand...

The fundamental note of the low E string on the guitar is about 83Hz. Because of many factors, we actually hear the first and second octave of that better than the fundamental, but it should be noted that a lot of that "mushy" sound that comes from guitars comes from the fundamental note. In the case of the low E on the guitar, that would be 83Hz.

A nice 6dB cut of 80Hz and below on most console Low eq knob will usually do the trick on strengthening the first octave and remove some of the "mush" in the sound.

Now, there can be a problem with the first octave being too prominent too! A nice little cut at 160Hz and below will take care of that too.

Guitar tone is a tricky thing. No two guitars resonate quite the same way, and thank god for that. Being aware of the frequencies involved can go a long way towards troubleshooting tone problems. EQ is not always the answer though. Sometimes, the guitar itself just doesn't sound all that hot. Solutions start getting a bit more expensive in that case...:)

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/guitar/intro_engl.html

Good luck.

Ed
 
Ed...

Thanks for the correction and the link. I was (improperly) thinking if I tune the fifth A string using a 440Hz fork....

I'm still a bit confused though. If I can sing a low E on a guitar I'm singing at 80Hz??? Please clarify because I'm still confused.
 
I think what you are singing is the first octave zip. Indeed though, you just might be able to sing the fundamental (83Hz) but that is getting into a pretty low range eh? :)

The open A on your guitar is actually 110Hz. I know it sounds weird, but that is what the fundamental is. On guitars, we hear the first and second overtones of the note better than the fundamental. I suspect this has something to do with the physical size of the instrument not being able to easily help support sound wave that size. But I have never look into this very much.

I made the mistake one time of assuming that the open A was 440Hz once and was corrected for it on this bbs! :)

Ed
 
Thanks Ed!

Now it makes sense! I must be singing the first overtone because I know I can't sing down to 80 Hz!!!

That is a very strange concept in deed that what I hear in a guitar is not the fundemental. Does the same hold true for a bass guitar? What I "hear" in the open E seems to be at about 80Hz and a recorded bass passage "indicates" about 80Hz on a spectrum analyzer...(or seems to)

Man...I really need to read that article...
 
Yes, on the bass guitar the same holds true.

An understanding of the Fletcher/Munson Relative Loudness Curve will add some insight into why you hear the first octave on stringed instruments better than the fundamental. But also, remembering that something as small as a guitar string and the guitars body just are not going to produce low frenquency very efficiently.

Ed
 
Very cool....thanks Ed!

So I guess my initial opinion (although skewed a bit high and technically incorrect - LOL) of cutting 250Hz and below is SOMEWHAT TRUE. ;)

160 and 80Hz cuts.... got it! :)

BTW...your reverb article is great! Very well written with superb examples! Now I KNOW what the different reverb types are supposed to emulate. :)

You should write a book! It will sell. Just make sure you share some stuff with us first...K? ;)

zip >>
 
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