Tonight, I'll Fly

G

Guitarer

New member
This is a rough demo of a song I've been working on for over a year. My drummer learned it as he recorded, as we were stressed for time. I'd appreciate all constructive criticism of mix and recording, but I'm already aware some of the playing and singing is sup-par. This is my first attempt at doing drums.

I will upload to a higher quality site if anyone has any reccomendations. LightningMP3 hasn't been working for me.

www.myspace.com/vextransmission

Thanks for listening!

-Holden
 
The recording was not so great. I didn't concentrate on why...I kinda got distracted by the poor execution of parts.



Good:

arrangement of parts: breakdowns, changeups, a bridge...very promising.


Bad:

Melody strength in vox lacking...and it sounds like the lyric came first, and what melody there is was tailored to fit the lyric....which lends to both awkward phrasing and weak melody.


The tune sounds superficial...trying too hard to be epic and meaningful...especially the lead vox....I didn't listen to the words...just noted that the passion seemed forced, and whatever the message or emotion was, it was lost because of the poor performances, forced intensity, and awkwardness of the lyric.


Analysis: forget the recording quality and mixology: you need to develop a knack for inventing song in the reverse order you probably do now; and really really spend time practicing and playing your instruments to get some chops, and rehearsing material to a finer polish to make it worth recording in the first place. Then you can agonize over the recordings.


So, putting the horse in front of the cart: you need to develop a product worthy of the time and money spent on recording.

Step one: listen for music inside your head. That's where the good stuff is...in the subconsious mind. If you don't hear it yet, keep trying...have faith that it's there....it is. There, good melody comes automatically. You may hear it playing over changes and a rythm. The trick is to know enough about music and have enough skill on your instrument to play what you hear. You may get a hooky turn of phrase singing the superior melody you hear in you head.

Take that material, learn it......however short. It'll be very good. Let that good seed INSPIRE the additional things you hear as you play it....it's kinda like the song is already written in-full in your mind, and playing the part you have spurs your memory of it...and you add parts...inspired parts....to allow the work to find its completion. Write the lyric to fit the melody you hear, themed upon the idea you get when you hear it in your head...or expanding on an emotion you feel when you play the melody and changes.....say the same things using different words to fit the melody, which, generally should be first priority.

Then sing it as yourself.

It's a large part of effective composition and performance to be close, emotionally, to what you write. Listening to this tune...especially the vocal delivery....gives a sense or remoteness from the work. Maybe , mostly, because you didn't shed it enough before recording?

The natural talent you have to arrange parts interestingly is of little value unless you can tap into the inner jukebox to give you something good to arrange!

You guys are at the beginning of a long road....and a ways-off from prudently investing in development of good product and engineering savvy.

Build the foundation first.....five day a week in the basement or garage....working on the tunes you write....and learn some covers to increase your skill and ears. Do some gigs. If you're writing good stuff, and playing sharp and delivering the emotion and moving sound...people will respond: it's your laboratory to discover what works.

If you don't do these things, I'd say you haven't got a shot at doing anything but wasting a lot of time and money for no real gain.

You can't start a contracting business without knowing how to cut a board straight, and understanding how to build you customized house for a client....when you have never planned one...or participated as an apprentice to a builder.

Harsh? Mebbe. But you're 18. I'd like to see you on a good road to success, and attain your dream. Get your musical fundamentals down!
 
I think you need to make the drums a bit brighter. I don't usually mic drums, actually only done it 4 or 5 times, but I think the room mic is a bit much. Snare was really roomy also. A quick fix might be to send all of the drums to one bus, and then brighten that bus up with some eq. That might help. I noticed some pitch issues with the vocals. If you dont want to use an auto tune or pitch correct then one place for sure that needs automation is when the back up vocal comes in. He usually corrects it right after he gets there, but roll it off in the beginning becuase it sounds bad at an integral part of the song. I really like the song. Could be tighter as a recording but you said you were pressed for time, makes sense. Guitars were decent. I would really like to hear some stuff you have recorded not on the fly. Sounds good!
 
What Jeff said may seem harsh, but it's true. Vocals are one of the main things you need to work on.. mainly pitch.

This song has a great feel, and I can hear the potential in it.. it could really be great. But like Jeff said, it doesn't matter how much you try to polish your mix or recording, if the material isn't good then the final result can never be good, either.

Don't be discouraged by our words, we're trying to do the opposite. Keep working on it and you'll get there.
 
Thanks for the criticism guys.

These are my lyrics, my brother's vocals. He's a good singer, but has a lot of trouble with his pitch, and this was the best take I was able to get before he had to fly back home to NY.

Jeff: This music and the lyrics were written at the same time. Think it sounds superficial? To each their own. I've heard enough "This is so well written" and "The transitions flow so nicely" to not be discouraged by your words. This isn't a retort to your words, as I do appreciate the honesty, but know that your statements are very biased.
 
I've heard enough "This is so well written" and "The transitions flow so nicely" to not be discouraged by your words. This isn't a retort to your words, as I do appreciate the honesty, but know that your statements are very biased.


Biased in favor of helping you out.

I've been kicking your response around in my head, and I feel compelled to tell you a story:

When I was exactly your age, I was working in a real good band in Boston...I was way out of my league...but I could sing and play the parts.

Every once in a while, a former lead singer of the group would come in and catch a show. Every time this guy saw me he would shake my hand and tell me what a baddass singer and guitar player I was. He was really good...a pro...the real deal...who sang with the Temptations and some other major acts. An actor, too. I started to believe him....feelin' kinda cocky, I was.

Then I mentioned the compliments to my roommate...a REAL baddass player in the band ....older and wiser...who worked with the singer for a while....who confessed to me , "Oh yeah...he says that to everybody..."

During the his stint in the band, according to my bud, the singer dude was reading a lot of self-help books...grooming himself for success..."How to Win Friends and Influence People" kinds of things.

My roomie, who was a straight shooter always, pointed out my weaknesses, and deficiencies...especially my lack of effort to achieve musical and vocal expertise...I was lazy. I just wasn't that good, and he didn't want me to get lazier....or be deceived. He actually popped my balloon because he cared about me...and didn't want to see me injured. I sucked; and he let me know it for my own good, bless him.

What I learned:

It turns out that salesmen, ambitious people, or just folks who need to be liked, never say anything negative to anybody....and always make a habit of over-primping with praise anyone they meet...to serve their own ends. I was rapidly deflated...but it was all good. I was ignorant of that aspect of manipulative behavior, being an honest kinda bloke myself. Not that I was in a position to help this singer in his career or anything....I just fell victim to his studied, practiced and habitual puffery.

Keeping an objective sense of who and what and where you are...your skill and talents' true level... is important. You can be led to deceive yourself, and foil your own earnest ambitions, when used that way...selfishly or off-handedly... by others. You only have value to practitioners of the art of manipulation because of what you may do for them, or because they need to be liked, admired, or want to receive your attentions.

Keep this in mind next time someone tells you how great you are. There's a scene in some movie...I can't remember the name...where a record company guy introduces himself to a performer, gives him a card, tells him how fantastic he is..."Call me!!"

As record guy walks away from his victim, he says to the babe on his arm, "Jeeeez! that guy really SUCKS!" They have a laugh, and he feels real good about himself. Babe is wicked impressed.

People often have selfish motivations for telling you how awesome you are.

There are a few members of this forum who have 10,000 posts and 90364758 rep points.....who never say anything but how great any work posted here is. They're deceiving you for their own purposes. They get a kick out of a big number by their name. And it's possible others, elsewhere ,have, as well, 'puffed' you during your short time pursuing the music thing. Mom will tell you you're fantastic; people who don't know anything about what you're doing will say the same, just to make you feel good....being 'nice'.

Trust me: Based on the work I listened to, my remarks and advice to you are worth consideration. You all have a lot of work to do. And without the drive to work hard and improve...inspired by keeping a healthy impression of where you are at....you will more than likely fail at this game.

I don't think you can get to where you want to be from where you are....individually , or collectively. Just the first fact, as illustrated in your recording, that the three of you cannot keep time or play accurately to a groove...regardless of the circumstances...is not an encouraging sign. You spent a year on that song......

You can make something of yourself and you band and your music. That you have a talent for certain things is also apparent. But you gotta get the basics, hone them, and build on them, before you can realistically consider making art in front of a recording mic.

My honest opinion. Feel free to disregard what I say. I hope you give it some thought. I don't want you to fail.

I am interested to know , actually, what you mean by 'biased', though!
 
Wow. Serious words of wisdom.. man I'm thankful for this thread simply because I think what Jeff just shared opened MY eyes a lot. Thank you, Jeff.

*walks away with my babe on my arm.. "hahaha.. that guy was full of it!! hahah"*

jk.. no. That's not me. Great, great post.
 
Last edited:
Guitarer said:
Thanks for the criticism guys.

Jeff: This music and the lyrics were written at the same time. Think it sounds superficial? To each their own. I've heard enough "This is so well written" and "The transitions flow so nicely" to not be discouraged by your words. This isn't a retort to your words, as I do appreciate the honesty, but know that your statements are very biased.
Click to expand...

The last thing Jeff or anyone else is doing is trying to discourage you. Read his posts again.

Ignore him at your peril :D
 
Wow, great post(s), Jeff....and i'm not just blowing smoke up your ass(whatever the hell that is supposed to mean). I just got a long wished for recorder for Christmas(2488 neo), and have been struggling, for numerous reasons....some I suspect were stated very well in your posts.

Although I started playing music 30 years ago, I am really out of practice, as my attempts at recording thus far have exposed. I originally wanted a recorder to merely record some cover tunes, and to inspire me to play more often....projects to spur interest in playing music again. I also wanted to "make up some tunes" to record(I feel a bit pretentious at this stage to say I am "writing" music), but though I have some ideas, I do feel as if I am forcing the process. Strange, I woke this morning straight away with a tune in my head. It doesn't sound like a masterpiece, but I think maybe some of the things you have said are happening....i'm playing more, paying attention to my playing, and the time spent forcing something out has made room for something else to rise to the surface.

I honestly was quite naive about recording. It has become quite apparent that I didn't know how much I didn't know. I'll just have to take care not to get discouraged.

One problem I seem to have...I don't know what "my style" of music is...i'm thus far all over the place.

Apologies...i'm sure there are other threads where my thoughts should be expressed...not trying to turn the conversation to me.

Thanks for those words of wisdom Jeff.
 
I'm taking everything you say with a grain of salt, Jeff, and I do appreciate the posts.

It just urks me that I'm not getting the point across that the music is coming from my heart. Albeit, an almost 17-year-olds heart, and it's probably my fault. The recording isn't properly executed, my brother didn't do justice to the lyrics, and my drummer is all over the place.

All I can ask is that you'll take my word for it that everything I write truly is my heart and soul, and I will continue to try to prove that to not just you, but this entire forum, and maybe even the entire country.

Time to get Nazi on my band :D
 
Hello guys i read the post and i have to agree with Jeff about the instrumentation, you need to practice, specially on guitars, that "solo" wasn't good at all, half way bends, very improvised, sometimes is better make an easy and clear melody than a hard and dirty one. The song isn't bad at all, but i can't remember anything of it now that is over. Well, i like those hooks that keep riding through my head.

Keep Rocking guys it's just work what you need.
 
Hello guys i read the post and i have to agree with Jeff about the instrumentation, you need to practice, specially on guitars, that "solo" wasn't good at all, half way bends, very improvised, sometimes is better make an easy and clear melody than a hard and dirty one. The song isn't bad at all, but i can't remember anything of it now that is over. Well, i like those hooks that keep riding through my head.

Keep Rocking guys it's just work what you need.
 
Meaning
To take a statement with 'a grain of salt' or 'a pinch of salt' means to accept it but to maintain a degree of skepticism about its truth.

Just want to be sure you know what that means!

I hope and believe you meant to say you'd sive a bit of consideration to what I said.

I don't want to to make the same mistakes I did.

I'm still paying the price of youthful over-estimation of my talent and skills 32 years after getting a shot at the major leagues.

Going Nazi on yourself is the place to start preparing for what you want to do. And that means grabbing some instrument, vocal and general music lessons....and practicing, listening, learning about 8 hours a day for a few years....while you translate that work into a music product with some driven, like-minded buds....and throw yourselves on a stage to play covers you like, and what original stuff you can develop. All the fundamental skills you need to prepare yourself for playing what you will hear, and making it into interesting, artful and desirable music in a studio, starts there.

99% of the people who succeed at what you're aiming for are maniacal workaholics. [ Have you ever seen the 'Aerosmith' videography?....Steve Tyler is a good subject of study...among a lot of others]

And about your 'heart and soul' songs. Either you believe it to be true and it isn't, or you can't accurately play what you hear in there. There are people with less musical skill than you who create impactful music that anyone can tell came from that special place. When you capture a true head-tune, or several, for real, I, and everyone else here on the forum, will know it when we hear it: music from the soul is recognized by other souls, really! And, more important, you will now it...you'll never forget the experience...like a first kiss. It's a lot of work to simply allow the music you were born with to break out of your mind; but it's not sweat: it discipline, faith, humility, and trust in your gifted compositions....that is, that the songs of your heart [or head] are good enough as you hear them, meant to be shared, and valuable. Then you gotta be able to play them....what you hear is often beyond your physical and mental skill to translate into reality.

If one learns from failure, I'm a friggin' scholar. Allow me the important humble honor of being the first to kick your ass! Get to work, son!
 
Hey Mick Doobie!

Your story is a lot like mine. I crashed at 19...played for a few more years, gave it up for 20 years. About 7 years ago, I picked up the guitar and started getting chops back, and a repertoire. Started gigging full time again about 4 years ago, while learning how to record. Last year, I got a publisher interested in my crappy productions, and I have a song in a movie...a real hollywood horror flick, due for release any time now.

Climbing, climbing....every summit, I see another mountain to climb. I'm doing, as an old bastard, exactly what I should have done at 16. Never too late to start; just that you can't enjoy the pursuit and the fruit as long as you'd like to.

Go, man: GO!
 
Guitarer said:
I'm taking everything you say with a grain of salt, Jeff, and I do appreciate the posts.
Click to expand...

I would think that anybody really wanting to take something useful away from these forums would find brutal honesty refreshing.

Jeff's comments, verbose as they may be, make a lot of sense.

Trust me.. as somebody right between you two guys in age, I can tell you this: if you keep at it and work hard, very soon you're going to listen to this recording and think to yourself "Sheesh.. I can't believe I thought this was any good."

Now, I'm not saying I thought it was all bad... I'm just saying that I was once in your very position. Getting my feathers ruffled a bit by people giving honest critiques of my early recordings, only to find myself completely agreeing with them a few years later.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top