To patch or not to patch?

BrettB

New member
hi all,

I don't have many outboard equipment (Digi 002rack, ADA8000, H4700headphoneamp, JV10-10, POD 2.0, masterkeyboard), but enough to get my an awful lot of cables lying around my setup. Most things are hooked up always the same way, but when I want to change it it becomes a burden.

I was planning to building myself a rack and I was wondering if it would be wise to buy a patchbay. I could hook everything up the same way it is now, and it would give me more versatility when I want to reconnect something.

Is there any loss of quality running through a patchbay first (I guess not, knowing that the connections are balanced?)? Any other inconveniences?
 
I wouldn't worry about a loss in quality. The thing that you have to think about is that a patchbay doubles the number of cables you need to make everything work. You will have to figure out if it is worth it for your situation.
 
Just do it. The quality thing is a nonissue. Get every input and output on the p-bay and your life becomes way easier. You will find yourself doing things in a much more creative fashion...but you will also find yourself patching things in ways that make your speakers howl. It teaches what not to do REAL fast.
 
Get a patch bay. They make life so much easier. I would not want to do without mine, that is for sure. Any signal degradation is minimal at worst, and almost certainly below your ability to hear the difference. I mean, every large professional studio in the world uses patch bays. There is no reason you shouldn't.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
As long as you keep your patchbay clean, you should be fine. Oxide that can build-up on connectors will affect audio quality as well as your connections from one unit to the other.
 
If you're like 99.99% of us, you've got a looooooonnng way to go before the sound of the patchbay becomes an issue. Probably after you acquire the $3K microphones, and the $4K preamps, and the $100K dedicated studio building, among other things.
 
is there a difference in patchbays, besides, being able to switch between normalled? I mean, whats the difference between a $20 used behringer and a brand new $100 furman?
 
notbradsohner said:
is there a difference in patchbays, besides, being able to switch between normalled? I mean, whats the difference between a $20 used behringer and a brand new $100 furman?

That $100 Furman will last many many years of flawless performance. It will retain a much better retail value too. If you value neither, than the Behringer will be fine I guess.
 
I've never given patchbays much thought because my setup was never that complex. Now as it's grown from a 8 track analog with 2 outboards, to one setup around an HD24XR and 24-8 board and a dozen outboards or so, I'm starting to reexamine the topic.

Question: would the basic idea be that I'd have every AUX Send & Return and INSERT from the board patched to the patchbay along with all the sends and returns from every outboard piece of gear?

Would I need a special TRS compatible patchbay to handle the INSERTS?

Thanks.
 
Nate74 said:
Would I need a special TRS compatible patchbay to handle the INSERTS?

Thanks.
No, you would just need insert cables (like the ones you are using now) to go to the patchbay. All the bay is doing is putting all the ins and outs of all your gear in one place.
 
I wouldn't put the insert of the console on a patch bay unless that is how you are routing the channels to the recording machine to record.

If you run the channel inserts to the patchbay, you are running the audio through a lot more cable all the time (the TRS Insert connection is Normalled if nothing is plugged into it. Once you plug something into, the audio after the preamp, but before the eq is sent to the Tip of that connector, and any audio coming back to the console is on the Ring of the connector). Basically, once you plug in the insert cable, your audio will always run through that cable, whether you are using an outboard device or not.

Your best sounding signal will also be the shortest wire route, and the least connectors inline of the signal. It is actually best to avoid the channel insert for another reason. It is a unbalanced signal. The combination of the long wire route, and the unbalanced wire can really start to add a lot of potential noise, and overall degration of the signal.

Again, if you are using the old method of using the channel inserts as a send to the recording machine, then you have to go this route, even though it isn't the best method. But, if you have direct out's and line in's on your mixer, and that these in's and out's are balanced, it makes more sense to have the direct out's half normalled via a patch bay to the recording machines in's, and have the recording machines out's half normalled to the Line In, or Direct In per channel of the mixing board. If you want to "insert" a compressor to that "channel" you can do so will recording, or while playing back. Also, you could have a compressor just for playback monitoring that isn't inline while tracking! It is a much more versatile setup, as well as having much better integrity.

If you don't plan on repatching your aux sends and returns, you probably could direct wire them and skip the patch bay. But, I can think of a lot of reasons you should have them on the patchbay too. First, if say a band walked in with their own effects processor that you wanted to use, you can just plug it right in to the patch bay. Also, you might want to have the input of a reverb have a compressor before it. Maybe a noise gate! Maybe you might want to use the Aux Send with one of the newer headphone amps that have Aux inputs on it, so that you can send a stereo headphone mix, but also have an individual track that can be controlled in the musicians mix.

Farview, you said "All the bay is doing is putting all the ins and outs of all your gear in one place". That is ONE function of the patchbay. It is also a way to make the "normal" connection between those peices! While you probably already know that, for people that are not knowledgable about complicated patchbay setups, they need to know that a patchbay can not only provide a central spot to connect in's and out's, but can also provide a connection between those in's and out's with some perks! Via a patchbay you can also split a signal as well as route almost any signal from one place to another.

In this world of software mixing and small consoles just for monitoring, complicated patchbay setups are going by the way side. But if you are still using an analog console, and outboard gear, it is to your advantage to have as many of the in's and out's in your studio happen on the patchbays as possible. As jake-owa stated ealier, it will help facilitate a more creative and smooth functioning work environment. You can concentrate on getting stuff done, rather than on getting behind your gear rack and repatching crap when you want to try something different.
 
Running the inserts to the patchbay will be better in years to come because it negates the effect of the switching jacks getting dirty and becoming intermittant. All big studios have the inserts wired to the patchbay. Anyone with a console housing has to do this. It is not that big of a deal.
 
Hafler amp, I was trying not to confuse the guy by telling him the 101 things you can do with a patchbay. I am fully aware of all the functions as I have everything in my studio going to a patchbay. It seemed to me that he was having a problem visualising what the patchbay was for and making it out to bew more complicated than it was. My apologies for not being as inclusive as I should.
 
The switching jacks getting dirty is an easy fix. You clean them. ;) Having your audio ALWAYS running down unbalanced lines isn't something deoxit will fix!

I have only seen small project studios wire the consoles inserts.
 
HaflerAmp said:
The switching jacks getting dirty is an easy fix. You clean them. ;) Having your audio ALWAYS running down unbalanced lines isn't something deoxit will fix!

I have only seen small project studios wire the consoles inserts.
The switching jacks also wear out and need to be replaced, This is expensive on cheap boards because the jacks are soldered to a pc board with other i/o on it and the whole thing needs to be replaced. (If you can find the exact replacement jack, you could desolder the old one and solder the new one. If you aren't very good at soldering, you will end up buying the whole pc board anyway)
Studios that have Neves and SSLs and the like have the insert points at a patchbay. There is no insert on the back of the console and the patchbay could be 20 feet from the channel it is serving. I've had to solder these stupid things together, believe me everything comes up at a patchbay, sometimes half way across the room. 5 feet of decent cable is not going to adversely effect the 'pristene sound' of your Mackie or Behringer board.
 
HaflerAmp said:
The switching jacks getting dirty is an easy fix. You clean them. ;) Having your audio ALWAYS running down unbalanced lines isn't something deoxit will fix!

I have only seen small project studios wire the consoles inserts.


It is unbalanced inside of your console, so what does it really matter? Beside, I don't really want another transformer interfering with the sound at that point. If you are running 150 feet, then it is important to go balanced, but for the three fret inside my desk, it hardly matters.

I did a cool thing with my inserts. I set them up so the bottom jack had the return on the tip, but the top jack has the send on the tip, and the return on the ring, just like the console. They both will work, and it does not affect anything if I break the normal. Works great. And, I can still plug in an RNC with just one two conductor (+ shield) patch cable.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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