thick guitar by splitting signal?

C

Captain Ego

New member
I was reading a lot of people get a thicker guitar sound by recording it twice and blending them. I also read a lot of bass is recorded using a mic on an amp blended with the DI tone.

I was wondering if another way would be to plug my guitar into a mixer to split it into several outputs.

I want to know if this is a dumb idea because someone is selling a mixer for cheap and I have 2 different effect pedals that are both guitar amp simulators, and and 2 amps, one with a headphone out amp emulator head too. I thought if I get this mixer, I can run my guitar into that, run 4 different outputs (main L/R and mon L/R) into my amp sims and amps, then run all 4 of their outputs into the 4 inputs on my 4 track.

so it would look like this:

guitar --mixer---main out R---digitech pedal---channel1
---main out L---zoom pedal---channel2
---mon out R---Line 6 amp---phones---channel3
---mon out L---Crate amp---microphone---channel4

If all the settings on the amps and pedals are the same kind of sound with maybe different tweaks in tone between each one, I could get 4 sounds to blend together for a bigger sound. Has anyone tried something similar to this? I want to know if it's worth my bother to get this mixer, I don't want to spend money on it if someone else has tried this and found out that for one reason or another it doesn't work (like stuff I have heard about but know nothing about like phase cancelling)
 
You could split it 20 times, but it would still be one take, and that kind of defeats the purpose. Record multiple takes. it's the subtle differences in performance that really makes the difference.
 
Greg_L said:
You could split it 20 times, but it would still be one take, and that kind of defeats the purpose. Record multiple takes. it's the subtle differences in performance that really makes the difference.
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Its that ^^^^. Trying the technique your talking about cant do any harm, and its well worth trying it to see if you find what you need. but 9 times out of 10 its the small things that make the difference. If I need to double track anything, I usually record another performance with a different pickup selected, maybe change tone on the guitar and amp a bit. Just thinking about what you were asking. . . Id love to try that, you could get some really really cool delays going some amazing effects from mixing different effects with different amps.
 
What Greg said. Splitting a signal only makes the exact same signal louder, nothing else.
 
RAMI said:
What Greg said. Splitting a signal only makes the exact same signal louder, nothing else.
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Not quite, if you are processing the splits differently. Line 6 Pod Farm allows you to set 2 signal chains and pan either left/right. Allows you to get some unique 'dual tones', but recording multiple takes is still the best, overall.
 
mjbphotos said:
Not quite, if you are processing the splits differently.
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I agree. You can even go to extremes and mangle one to the point of it almost being another instrument if you want some really weird effect.

I was talking about simply splitting and panning (or not panning). Many people do this thinking it "thickens" up their sound or makes it stereo or something. I was trying to emphasize that splitting a signal (or copying and pasting, etc...) does nothing other make it louder, and panning them still keeps them mono coming up the middle.
 
Greg_L said:
Record multiple takes. it's the subtle differences in performance that really makes the difference.
Click to expand...

"subtle differences" is the key... if you're not a good enough player to be able to repeat what you played the first time with a fair degree of skill, then you can end up with a sloppy mess...
 
Well, thanks for the clarifications. I ended up using an amp simulator set to a sim 'rectifier' slightly right and one set to a sim '5150' slightly left, with my actual amp in the middle. The sim sounds are similar, but with different characteristics for a little nuance, but they all blend together nicely. I had the tone higher for the center, and the gain cleaner, which gave it clarity, while there was a bit of crunch but not as much of clarity to the sides. It did what I wanted :)

As for playing exactly the same way twice, I don't think its about being "good enough". For some styles of music it just isn't an option. I use a lot of bends and pulloffs and scrapey noises and things that just don't ever occur twice the same. I can play the part and strum/pick it the same for simple power chord chugs or runs of notes, but not for the more interesting stuff. Its not about being good, its about what kind of thing you are playing. I'm sure I could knock out a rhythm guitar part for some heavy metal riff like a robot but I don't like that stuff.
 
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Randy Rhodes used to do 8 identical tracks for his solos......just sayin'.
 
Armistice said:
"subtle differences" is the key... if you're not a good enough player to be able to repeat what you played the first time with a fair degree of skill, then you can end up with a sloppy mess...
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If you're not a good enough player to be able to repeat what you played the first time with a fair degree of skill, you should probably practice.

Most of what I've recorded in the past is fast thrashy/deathy type metal and is between double and quad tracked and layered. With that sort of stuff especially, the guitars need to be tight as hell. Now, I'm one sloppy as fuck guitarist most of the time, and if I just went in expecting to play all these tracks surper tight straight off the bat without any fuckups, I'd be insane, and everything would sound like ass when it's put together. I put in at least a good few hours of practicing a tune before I record it so that I can virtually play the damn thing in my sleep.

Now, there are a bunch of methods you can use to simulate double tracked guitars, but they won't generally sound as good as the real thing, and if you do get them to sound as good as the real thing, it will probably have taken longer than just playing it again. And depending on what you're playing, you might have a little more margin for error, so any practicing you do before hand might not need be so intensive.

Or course, it all depends on what you prefer doing. If you don't like playing your chosen instrument and would rather fiddle with buttons, then cool, simulate it. But me, personally, I don't mind putting in the practicing and playing it a few times more, because strangely enough, I actually like playing guitar, which is kind of why I'm a musician.
 
So all that said, here's something more useful.

Lets say you have a song with a standard basic structure. You know, Verse/Chorus/Verse etc. Assuming the guitars on the first verse are the same as the second, copy verse 2 and double that with verse 1, and vice versa. Same with the choruses. In fact you can pretty much do this with any riff or progression that gets repeated. It seems to be a more organic sounding way than duplicting the whole thing, nudging it over a few milliseconds, flipping the phase etc.
 
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