The Guage

T

TomT

New member
I have never bothered to give a review (more like an opinion) of any MIC I have purchased before. Most of them are the usual suspects, and you either know all about them, or you could read the other million review of them.

This one I have to talk about. Its called the "Gauge ECM-87"

http://www.gauge-usa.com/

I do not work for these two engineers, so this is not soliciting (in case is smells like that).

I was impressed by the "shoot out" results on their site, and the price was so low I had very little choice.

I have used it on Acoustic Gtr, Piano and voice over work. All I can say is that if your looking for a good inexpensive condenser, you just found it. I am ordering a second one immediately, and hope they stay around and make more models.

;)
 
This is your first and only post, its a recommendation of one barely heard of mic with a link, and you're "not soliciting"... and telling us you aren't?

Smells like processed pork product to me.
 
Yeah...thought I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt, I'm kinda with Phil on this one. It's a little shady. Looks like the same OEM Chinese mic body that several other manufacturers use. Ho-hum. :(



Frank
 
According to a couple of knowledgeable folks from the Gearslutz.com forum, one of the Gauge condenser mics is essentially the same as a Nady mic that you can buy for a whole lot less $$. This is second hand information, but I tend to trust the sources.
 
"About us."

"We're super-successful engineers but we could only afford $149 mics for our home studios."

:rolleyes:
 
jaz49 said:
According to a couple of knowledgeable folks from the Gearslutz.com forum, one of the Gauge condenser mics is essentially the same as a Nady mic that you can buy for a whole lot less $$. This is second hand information, but I tend to trust the sources.
Click to expand...

...that is correct...it was Michael Joly who posted the photos of the Gauge circuits which were stamped SCM900 (Nady)...circuits, capsule and casings were identical...Gauge claims they "audition" each mic before shipping (hmmm?)...but they do include a nice pop-screen with each mic as well as a spyder-mount...the Nady version is available for around $50 from various vendors...;)
 
Wow, you guys are a real friendly bunch.

The Gauge mic I bought was tested on an ssl console against a series of high end mics, and it certainly didn't sound anything like the crap I have heard from NADY.

Maybe you could learn some manners for a newcomer to your home studio style forum.

Just thought I would add a post to the list of other MXL and low end gear being discussed in these threads.

I could care less, and hope you invest your money into the "Same" NADY mic you think must be the same. :p
 
Grafolicious said:
Was he trying to advertise his own product, maybe? ish?
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No I wasn't. I live in Orlando Florida, and have never met the guys in Cali that sell these things. I have heard of them, being that they are well known pop level engineers.

I teach Recording and Mixing at a college here, and have an outsourcing company that does sound design and music for video games. This mic was meant for my voice over work, but is great sounding on acoustic gtr and on the piano in my living room as well.

Just thought I would help give some good feedback on a cheap but very good sounding piece of gear.

So much for welcoming a new friend. Is there a moderator here, or just an old school poster that has a courtesy?

Lighten up a bit team, and try doing as much audio production as misguided smack talking.
 
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TomT said:
So much for welcoming a new friend. Is there a moderator here

Lighten up a bit team, and try doing as much audio production as misguided smack talking.
Click to expand...

I'm a mod. What can I do for you? Probably not much. You could help yourself though; open up your mic and see if the PCB is so labeled. Or just post a pic, there are several people here who are quite familiar with microphone guts. That will help settle the question of origin.

Not that it seems too much of a question to me:

Gauge said:
Where is the ECM-87 manufactured? The ECM-87 is assembled in China to our specifications. They are then ear tested & hand selected at our studio in California.

Why is the ECM-87 better than the others? Our microphones are very consistent in quality & workmanship. We personally test and hand select each and every microphone before we ship it.

What happens to the microphones that don’t meet your quality control standards? If a microphone doesn’t sound great, we send it back to China. That way, they can paint it black and sell it to another company.
Click to expand...

OK, let's think on that statement for a minute. Yes, they are selecting microphones, so we can presume their product is more consistent than other Chinese resellers. But if they are truly shipping product back to China for sale to other resellers, then it stands to reason that the same model is available from other resellers.

Now, are such resellers only supplied rejects from Gauge, or do the rejects go back into a larger pool of mics? Since Gauge isn't that big, I'd bet on the latter. Therefore, the other resellers aren't just selling the dogs Gauge rejected, rather a pool that is perhaps skewed towards the bad slightly--but still would contain microphones that Gauge would accept.

In light of that, the rational thing to do would be to order four or five of the other reseller's mic that cost 1/3 of the Gauge mic, select the best, and return the rest. That takes time, yes, but if one is in the market for cheap microphones, then it is also likely that individual values money more than time. Otherwise, buy an AT or a Shure and get on with it.

I also have to object to this statement:

Our philosophy is also simple:

We believe musicians appreciate the value in a microphone that is hand-picked by experienced engineers with 50,000 hours in the studio making hit records as opposed to microphones that were designed by a technician

who measures sound quality with an oscilloscope.
Click to expand...

Apples and oranges. Experienced "engineers" who twist knobs vs. "technicians" who actually design and build stuff? Engineers design and technicians use, they have it backwards. They are technicians, literally, because they are doing tests to select microphones. An engineer would design the selection process, but probably wouldn't deign to do it themself :p But I really wouldn't know, I'm not an engineer . . . :D

No, I want to see them build a microphone with their 50,000 hours in the studio. From scratch please, and no tools like an oscilloscope. No multimeter. No SPICE modeling. They can use a soldering iron and their console, let's see what they come up with ;)

Finally, why does any large-diaphragm FET condenser built in 2009 have 17dBA self-noise? They might want to bone up on that oscilloscope after all!



The preceding post was brought to you by your exceedingly biased moderator, mshilarious :)
 
Well, I was making reference to more of being friendly to a new member of the community. I do not design mics, and have no desire to open up any of the mics I own.

I have been using mics for professional purposes for about 13 years now, and have yet to hear a mic in this price range that I thought was worth having. Whatever is making it happen, this was a great buy for me. You can disagree, and take my opinion or leave it. Just because it was my first post here, doesnt mean I dont have a right to offer my opinion on a little known product. This is the "Mic" forum right?

Not to be a snob, but stuff like Behringer, Nady, MXL and the like always seemed like a waste of money to me. For project studio Indy production work its probably fine, but this mic will be used on professional work that I do even when "better" mics are at hand.

I have always used my ears and experience as the only factor in what I use, and any other data means very little to me.

As I said in my original post, it was just my opinion on a cost effective option. Since it was my first post here, I just thought someone might have said "hello", or "hey don't jump down his throat just for offering his thoughts guys". Your welcome mat could use some cleaning.
 
TomT said:
Just because it was my first post here, doesnt mean I dont have a right to offer my opinion on a little known product. This is the "Mic" forum right?
Click to expand...

Of course you do. And so does everybody else. Nobody else asked a moderator to intervene, you did. They said it smelled like spam, but nobody reported your post to the moderators. I read it because I read almost everything on the Mic board. And I wouldn't have acted to moderate your post, because I figured a spammer would be able to spell their own company name ;)

But when you asked for a moderator, was that because you didn't respect others' right to express their opinions, or because you didn't like their opinions?

It's a two-way street, man :cool:
 
Welcome to the microphone forum TomT! It definitely helps to have a thick skin around here, as I found out myself recently. A couple of us were skeptical because this is the same mic that was discussed quite a lot on the Gearslutz low end forum. One or two folks were raving about it over there, and it turned out to have the exact same parts as a mic that Nady was selling for a lot less But the price is irrelevant if it sounds good anyhow. If the chinese can make a decent sounding mic for like $20-25, more power to them. I won't comment on the quality of the mic itself since I've never heard one.
 
I have a thick skin jaz49, but I appreciate the advice. I don't doubt that it has the same cheap parts as several other mic builds do. Considering how many companies buy and sell the same stuff with their own name on it.

I am not bragging (which is awful in forums), but I have been using mics for a very long time (probably like many of you). This mic sounds great, and far better than anything I have heard in its range. Maybe its the same parts as a cheaper mic, maybe they did something in the design to make it sound better than the sum of its parts. It doesn't really matter much to me.

When you find a new restaurant and its really yummy and cheap, you share the location with others.

The welcome is much appreciated by the way jaz49. :)

I apologize mshilarious, it did appear that I was requesting a moderator after reading my origninal post. the question was meant as tongue in cheek really, as in can someone moderate the nasty tone left in this threads wake.

If I really wanted to wine to a moderator about people with poor manners, then I would have PMed someone 9not that any laws were broken anyways). In any case, jaz49 reached out and saved my otherwise sunny day.

LOL, indeed I did screw up the spelling of Gauge, and I am a teacher! ha :eek:
 
TomT said:
This mic sounds great, and far better than anything I have heard in its range. Maybe its the same parts as a cheaper mic, maybe they did something in the design to make it sound better than the sum of its parts. It doesn't really matter much to me.
Click to expand...

You're not the only one to feel that way about it. At least one guy I know from over at gearslutz.com felt the same way, and he's used a lot of much more expensive mics, too. I remember a while back reading a review of a cheap MXL mic by a very experienced engineer. He fell all over himself praising that mic, and you can buy that mic for under $100. At the time that I read the review I remember thinking to myself, "Boy, he must have a friend who works for MXL or he was paid to write that one!" It's hard not to be cynical sometimes! :D
 
kidvybes said:
...that is correct...it was Michael Joly who posted the photos of the Gauge circuits which were stamped SCM900 (Nady)...circuits, capsule and casings were identical...Gauge claims they "audition" each mic before shipping (hmmm?)...but they do include a nice pop-screen with each mic as well as a spyder-mount...the Nady version is available for around $50 from various vendors...;)
Click to expand...

yeah that was (formerly) my mic in those photos incidentally. i spent $50 shipping it to MJ, having it shipped back to me and then shipping it to Gauge (who gave me a full refund of my purchase price incidentally) in the name of science :)
 
jaz49 said:
You're not the only one to feel that way about it. At least one guy I know from over at gearslutz.com felt the same way, and he's used a lot of much more expensive mics, too. I remember a while back reading a review of a cheap MXL mic by a very experienced engineer. He fell all over himself praising that mic, and you can buy that mic for under $100. At the time that I read the review I remember thinking to myself, "Boy, he must have a friend who works for MXL or he was paid to write that one!" It's hard not to be cynical sometimes! :D
Click to expand...

It may well be that the mic is not the same as the Nady version. I've looked at the group buy mics and I've looked at products from Nady (not the same, mind you).

  • The first thing I noticed when I disassembled the group buy mics was that almost every cap was film or poly except for a couple of electrolytics.
  • The first thing I noticed when I disassembled the Nady mic was that nearly every cap was tantalum except for a couple of electrolytics.

Translation: Nady has them build the mics to bottom end specifications. It is quite possible that this uses the same circuit board, but with higher quality components. It is also possible that the capsule is different. I could take a Neumann U-47 and load it up with tantalum caps and a bottom grade Chinese capsule and I guarantee it wouldn't still sound (much) like a U-47. :)

That said, looking at Mr. Joly's photos, this appears to be very much a bottom-grade tantalum-covered board. An hour of modding could really improve any mic built that way.

BTW, this mic also shares its circuit board with the Apex 435 (except for the markings---the Apex 435's boards say "SY-1A" and "SY-1B"). As-is, that's not a terrible mic, and a recap cleans it up a good bit. Michael is right about the top end on the capsule needing taming, but it is a lot more palatable without all the distortion added by the cheap components on the board. :)
 
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TomT, you have to understand that 90%+ of the time a new post like yours has appeared on this forum, it is usually a plant from the manufacturer and our duty is to expose that. You gave the typical signs so we had to call you on it. Trust me, as you're around more you will understand why we react the way we did and why your post looked suspicious.

There are quite a few of us here who a very familiar with the various Chinese manufacturers and their products and builds and how they are labeled and sold under the various names as they come to this country. No one is pulluing the wool over our eyes.

The truth that we have discovered is that as long as the internal parts are good and the company does good QA, you can end up with a very usable product. Its the rejects that still get sold that are the source of the bad rep these mics get. If they followed Neumann procedures for parts rejection then there wouldn't be the cloud that hangs over them.

There are other things that keep these mics down. Things like capsule tuning and tensioning secrets that the Chinese don't really know. Trade secrets that Neumann and AKG, Sheopps, MBHO etc. aren't willing to divuldge to the public. In time they get better and there are some resellers willing to put something into these to make them as good as they can be for what they are. If that is what Gauge is doing, great!

Now that we're 60% sure you're not a fraud;):D, welcome aboard!
 
Understood Philgood, I havelimited knowledge of actual internal mic design. Spending half of my life using them, I know a lot more than most but these topics are fascinating to me. hence why I joined this community.

I have a lot of experience with Neumann, DPA, and everything from an SM57 to a Manley Stereo reference.

To hear anything that I find usable for my paid contracted projects that cost 149 bucks, and has a pop filter and shock mount thrown in. Well to me that news for my bottom line.

After following a link on mshilarious profile (http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphones.html) and seeing some of the prices from indy developers, I really look forward to learning more about this realm. I had no idea people sold custom mics for under a hundred dollars, and they might even be useful?

While we are talking, I am really looking for a pair of small diaphragm condensers (cardiod) for stereo sound design recording. I wont be buying any KM184's or Earthworks any time soon, so I would love to find a mic pair from an indy developer and spend my money there.

Any suggestions from the tech crew?
 
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