The Future of distortion?

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fritzmusic

Member
Hey all, first off, I'm a drummer who dabbles with guitars....bad combo, I know. I've played for about 20 years now and have noticed a few things.

Anyway my guitar player and I were playing around for two hours the other day with distortion patches on my POD (which he really likes) and got me wondering what the future of distortion could possibly sound like? Mesas amps seem to me to be the only real advance in the past 20 years on what a unique, distinguishable distortion sound is to me as a layman in distortion. Although after hearing the amps of Killswitch Engage sounded really full but that's with the help of uber-high end audiophile mastering compression. What will distortion possibly sound like in 20 years from now? Will someone create the ultimate distortion that will make you cry once you hear it and make you want to quit playing guitar...and we won't even need singers or bassist and drummers...just pure guitar distortion? How can this sound possibly be refined further with all the "gee whiz" gear available today? Is it just me or are the most sought-after "perfect distortions" mostly swayed by what is commercially heard on recordings by great players? Everytime I hear a guitarist point out a tone they like, they always compare it to someone else bigger than them. What's the future hold? I just don't get it...this whole distortion business. Now I can tell between a crappy (high end crackly) distortion a great distortion (recto) but besides that, guitarists never seem to be at a middle ground with bands when trying to find "that sound". Seems rather silly to me to focus on what amounts to a simple effect rather than performance...

I mean I play drums too primarily and as long as we hear boom, boom and click click, we're happy. Why are guitarists so darn picky about sound that is well....purposefully messed up to begin with? Isn't that the point of distortion?

So...any distortion gurus, amp snobs or anyone else wanna take a stab at what the future of distortion could possibly sound like?
 
This is an interesting topic. By my count, there are about 7 common methods used to distort a guitar signal. These can be used in combination to some extent, so figure maybe 20 combinations.

Add to that compression and frequency-dependent compression, and you can add a few more flavors.

I have my own thoughts and preferences. Actually I am working on my own guitar pedal designs to express my ideas. I published some early sketches in a thread titled "DIY tube pedals" or something like that.
 
I don't think anyone will ever create a sound so cool, that no one will stop trying to get another sound. It's such a personal preference thing. I have a POD, and constantly switch between sounds, just because a certain song, or riff sounds better in one tone, then I have another riff that seems to fit a different one. :o
I listen to tons of music, of various styles, and always hear tones I wnat to get, but then I hear another tune, and want that tone also.....kind of like food. I can't pick just one flavor, and say I will never eat anything else.....
 
I mean I play drums too primarily and as long as we hear boom, boom and click click, we're happy. Why are guitarists so darn picky about sound that is well....purposefully messed up to begin with? Isn't that the point of distortion?
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Holy crap I can't believe there is a drummer who thinks guitarists are out of whack for searching for the best TONE.........
Unlike the limitless possibilities of guitars/amps/effects/etc- drums only come in a handful of configurations (sizes/plys/material) but we seem to spend insane amounts of energy finding the "perfect" drumset, the "perfect" drumhead brand, style, and combination for every drum. I went thru 2 kits and 4 snares and was never happy. Replaced every cymbal at least once all the way around. And I'm GLAD I was broke back then if I had more money I would have spent it trying to get closer to the "sound".
With guitar its just as bad for me. But this time around, its so hard to justify buying that amp I really want. I could be in tone heaven but I think I'm gonna just keep playing my POD Pro. I have my acoustic to truly keep me happy.
 
goodbyebluesky: Is that possibly because the "live" drum sound you were trying to achieve with the variables and configurations was ultimately only trying to emulate to your ears what was a direct END RESULT of skilled engineers, compression, recording technology, mastering and the whole recording world "snapshot" onto a tape, CD, 8track, vinyl etc? I could start a whole other thread in the drummer's forum on this...lol..


However, distortion and tone with guitars in the same sentence seems REALLY contradictory when you step back and look at it from a drummer's perspective...you see? It seems like a futile "have your cake and eat it too" pursuit of guitarists. At least drummers are after the clean, raw drum tone enhanced or not to varying degrees....but no...guitarists want two totally contradicting worlds to collide in perfect hamony in the live realm trying to perfectly recreate previously recorded end results.

Believe me, I'm not knocking guitarists one bit because I myself am just so damn intrigued about the effect of distortion and guitar tone recording because I'm still learning so much about it myself from our current guitarist....but he's too vague with me or hasn't thought things out all the way through yet to effectively communicate this to me. Me, I plug in the POD, drool and record and it's all good. I haven't played with the instrument long enough to hear what subtleties are missing in the modeling tones that my guitarist can't quite seem to his put his finger on.


Still, what is it about those Mesa Boogie amps that makes them stand apart from the herd? Sonically, it's distortion and tone but what's the special sauce that make it sound different than a Marshall JCM900? Is it a static EQ filter? A special type of tube? Circuitry? What gives that distorted sound it's unique color?


Then again, still, what can the future POSSIBLY bring to the arena of distorted guitar tone? Is it sheer gain, definition, percentage of distortion and tone all in one that guitarists are ultimately after? I mean this seems to be a serious pursuit to top-dog amp manufacturers...so what's the big hold-up in perfect distortion tone being available in pod-like stomp boxes? Is it a mathematical equasion? Was it left behind in the analog days? Are there just too many variables for guitarists to muck through with the right combinations of pickups, pickup positions, string gagues, brands, amps, tubes, speakers, mics, rooms, the tone of the guitar itself? Will future POD-like amp modelers ultimately include all of these variables in one box or software? I think thats what the future of distortion could possibly be....put all this variable crap accurately into one modeling package with the finite amount of distortions available and BOOM! Heck, we might have this in 10 years or less...that would be kewl!

I honestly think there is a whole industry created around this one static distorted effect to keep guitarists chasing their own tails in pursuit of that last 1% of perfect distorted tone that can only be squeezed out by advances in recording technologies, compression, mastering level equipment and of course, the recording and mastering engineers themselves.

So do I have a somewhat accurate grasp of what present distorted tone is about or am I way off base? Still what would the future bring us?
 
Get a good tube amp, plug in, and turn it up. It ain't rocket science. ;^)

Call me Ludd, but I don't like digital distortion. None that I've heard first hand, anyway.
 
It's possible that the emphasis on tone is a fad. Mind you, I think it's a good fad. But looking at the history of guitar amplification, most of the desirable vintage amps came along in the '60s, so for the players then that would have pretty much been what there was. Somehow I suspect they spent less time thinking about it.

In the '70s, with solid state gear coming along, you then also had the glory days of distortion pedal innovation. So then distortion was attainable at lower volumes.

By the time I came along in the '80s, tones pretty much sucked and not that many people cared. Whereas your average HS guitarist now wants a tube amp, back then people thought the Rockman sounded good. Well, maybe when you were wailing all the time, nobody noticed it sounded like crap.

Once the guitar solo died, then guitarists had to learn something about rhythm, and maybe learn something other than power chords. In the process perhaps they started listening to their sound, and they realized that the intermodulation from their crummy stompboxes made chords sound really bad, but tube amps didn't suffer from that problem.

So that brings us to the present, with emulators. Will digital completely take over? I'd say probably not, for two reasons: first, guitarists are unbelieveably conservative. They would probably vote for Barry Goldwater if they could ;)

Second, it just isn't that much of a cost advantage. By the time you buy the emulator and plug it into an amp, another couple hundred bucks you get an all-tube amp that probably has a better speaker to boot. Compared with the price of a nice guitar, that's not much.

But will guitarists continue to obsess about tone :confused: I dunno, seems to me that synths are due for a resurgance, maybe people will stop caring about guitar rock for a while.

Just like when Decca turned down the Beatles ;)
 
what tone did the wild stallions have? i think once this tone is achieved there will be world peace, and maybe no more searching for the perfect distortion.
 
zook250 said:
what tone did the wild stallions have? i think once this tone is achieved there will be world peace, and maybe no more searching for the perfect distortion.
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That was pretty much the crap '80s tone.

Just remember, they get a lot better ;)
 
I don't think we'll see any new guitar tones UNLESS we see some new styles of music develop. The classic example of guitar distortion was first introduced when rock music became popular, as the music has changed so has the guitar tone. The evolution of metal in to heavier styles has produced some newer distortion styles recently. However it is impossible to really predict where it is going to go next.
 
ibanezrocks said:
The evolution of metal in to heavier styles has produced some newer distortion styles recently. However it is impossible to really predict where it is going to go next.
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My thoughts exactly. Metal is the trialblazer for distorted guitar tone, and it just keeps getting better and better.

The latest FF album has great solid punchy tone with HUGE presence and impact. It's the best tone for single note and power chord grooving I've ever heard. The latest Strapping Young Lad album has the most transparent yet aggressive tone I've ever heard. It's almost as if you need to listen to it few time to even realize that what you are hear is the guitar. It's like it just could never bo TOO loud. It's just GREAT.

IMO, while most other styles of guitar players cling to the past with no intention of change or improvement, metal guitarists are usually all about stepping it up a notch and making it better, every time they (we) play. To me, that is exciting. The target keeps moving, and you gotta keep advancing. :cool:
 
For me personally, it's not obsessing over reproducing live a sound that was processed and tweaked in the studio. That's just stupid. For me, it is obsessing over finding a sound that really inspires my playing. Something that really makes me want to play...want to try out new things. The "perfect" tone isn't something that's found on an album. It is something that makes you play better. For me, I finally found it in the combination of my Strat or my Epi Les Paul in front of my Orange AD30TC. I had other amps before it...even a Peavey Classic 30 tube amp. But it wasn't until I tried the Orange that I felt the expression of my fingers being truly conveyed.

The "perfect" tone is whatever lets you freely express emotion through a block of wire and wood.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how we got to where we are today. :confused:

I'm putting together a new guitar rig and right now the "weakest link" is looking more and more like pickups.

DM Dual Sounds in a 74 SG Standard, installed around 82-83 or so. I guess back then the idea was to have a lot of distortion off your pickups. Today the formula seems reversed. Get a clean or maybe a bit overdriven tone off the guitar and use tube amps to get distortion and tone, and maybe something like a KLON Centaur to make everything either bigger and/or badder.

I talked to Lindy Fralin this morning and when I said I wanted less distortion on the bass and more beef in the treble he said those are opposite goals for a humbucking pickup to achieve. He suggested I try their single-coil hummer replacement. The "Unbucker" looks interesting too, but he said it can be a bit noisey if you're used to humbucking pickups.

So yeah, the never-ending quest for bitchin' tone continues full-steam ahead.
 
On this note...

Does anyone still use a Scholz Rockman? I have one from the mid 80s that I used when I was in high school. Back then, I thought it was the holy grail - perfect for playing Rush tunes (and of course Boston tunes). It's still kind of fun to get out once in a while, but it's just not my sound at all any more. I must say that pinch harmonics were amazing through it.

That was definitely the sound du jour back in the day, distortion-wise.

Just reminscing a bit...

JD
 
c7sus said:
I talked to Lindy Fralin this morning and when I said I wanted less distortion on the bass and more beef in the treble he said those are opposite goals for a humbucking pickup to achieve. He suggested I try their single-coil hummer replacement. The "Unbucker" looks interesting too, but he said it can be a bit noisey if you're used to humbucking pickups.
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I'm pretty much a crazy idiot when it comes to pickups, but I hand rewound a humbucker to 5K ohms in series, with the coils at 2.4 and 2.6K ohms. I don't have a meter than can measure capacitance, but I bet it's pretty low. I like the sound.

Maybe worth asking Fralin if a lightly-wound Unbucker would be a reasonable approach :confused:
 
I think you can get 5K & 6K sets from Fralin.

Lew's Guitars in CO lists 8K and 9K that are 1K higher than what Fralins' site shows.

Those sound pretty sexy. ;)

The reviews are pretty positive at HC too.
 
guttapercha said:
Does anyone still use a Scholz Rockman? I have one from the mid 80s that I used when I was in high school. Back then, I thought it was the holy grail - perfect for playing Rush tunes (and of course Boston tunes). It's still kind of fun to get out once in a while, but it's just not my sound at all any more. I must say that pinch harmonics were amazing through it.

That was definitely the sound du jour back in the day, distortion-wise.

Just reminscing a bit...

JD
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I still have my sustainor/chorus+delay from 1986. It hasn't been in my live rig in years but is permanently wired into my patchbay for those times when that sound is the one I need. The chorus is fantastic. The sustainor sound is dated but comes alive when patched though some external stuff before going to the board. A little eq, compression and reverb makes the sound much more current.

As far as tone is concerned, I haven't read any comments about the players touch. When I play through my live rig, studio gear or someone else's gear, I still sound like me. A huge part of tone is in the fingers.

Fritz, don't knock being a drummer who dabbles with guitars. EVH was a pianist first, then a drummer and then a guitarist. :D
 
gbdweller said:
EVH was a pianist first, then a drummer and then a guitarist. :D
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Look at how well that worked out for him, sure he's rich, but how many pianists do you see with a drinking problem? ;)




sorry that was pointless.
 
ibanezrocks said:
but how many pianists do you see with a drinking problem? ;)
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Enough for 2 life times!

About distortion.

I honestly couldn't fathom what distortion will be in the future. I think too much rests on the question to be answered with complete certainty.

Considering how distortion orginally came about by the type of music that demanded it, how radically innovative it was at first glance, the political views of each of its eras.

-The 60s being the first kiss. It just felt good, but one dosn't know exactly why.

-The 70s being rather unintrusive and infantile in the developement of its sound. (Although that was the style of the time).

-The 80s being a step up, rather evasive and much louder. Big metal stepping up the bar on distortion. (Also a part of it's time). It's sound properties changed.

-The 90s being this loud roar into the grundge as well as evolving punk, with even louder distortion. Having been rooted in it's late 70s-80s punk relatives. (Also a style in it's own time).

- And then you got the now, which can be taken as a blend of what the grundge era left us, combined with what the metal era left us. So now you got this development into this sort of direct and straight clean distortion.


So to me, it seems like this pattern of distortion guitar that has slowly become alot drier and more upfront than its previous candidates. Almost like if you stick your ears closer to the amp about every 10 years.

Plus now that we are kind of comming out of the high end limitation days of analog, we can now hear alot more of that high end that might not of been heard in the 70s, 80s and 90s. And of course, I just picked out what I felt where some of the significant genres of the times. The only thing being that I wasn't alive for the time, so maybe I'm looking for some insight on my observations.

Of course, this is all with the benefit of hindsight.

So whether people are going to embrace distortion any further than they already do, that's probably the million dollar question of our time.

I figure the distortion itself is not what has survived the generations, but rather the technology constantly surrounding it. Let's face it, distortion hasn't really evolved all that much since its conception.

However, the technology that we listen through has. For example, amps have improved in quality, TV speakers have improved, headphones, CDs helped bring a new sound, equipment in the studio...plus our tolerance and acceptance has also evolved.

I honestly think the future may not be distortion as much as it may be another type of revolutionary sound. Maybe distortion will have something to add to that, or maybe not. Or perhaps improvements in other technology that will continue to revive our love for distortion. (Super speakers that give liquid hyper clear sound, maybe?)

Or maybe the instrument itself is what will evolve? Like a new evolution of the guitar maybe?

I suppose it will depend on the state of the music culture and what it demands, musically. Politically.

Cause at least for now, it dosn't seem like music is going to let up any time soon. So it might continue to get louder and edgier as the decade progresses.

I almost think of effects like distortion as real estate value. You buy it now in hopes that it will climb in value in the future, yet you don't know what other things are going to happen around that property.

Same with all the effects we use today. So if I was producing a band, and I wanted the material to be timeless, but still represent the era that I currently live in, I would have to think really hard, even for minor things like use of distortion and what types of distortion.

For the exact same reasons Rothchild demanded certain effects out of the Doors at the time. Alot was hit or miss with a dab of luck, but I suppose there is an overall timeless future to certain styles of music and the investments we make into the FX we use.

I suppose thinking "futuristically" is almost impossible to achieve until one has the benefit of hindsight. Yet the musical geniouses in history apparently had hindsight in the now rather than in the later.

Of course that's just my rationale.... just me thinking out loud.

Great post, man. :)
 
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