Taming Live drummers

pingu

pingu

New member
Hey guys. Ive just started playing in a band again.

I forgot how fukin loud it is.

Anyhow for those of you that play live also you will probably feel as i do that the volume at which the band gigs and rehearses at is largely governed by the drums.

So do you guys have any tips as to how to tame the level of the drums if the drummer aint the best and is playing very loud.

Is it possible for drums to sound good at lower volumes. (without the drummer smashing them)

To the kick ass drummers out there what have you found.
 
pingu said:
Hey guys. Ive just started playing in a band again.

I forgot how fukin loud it is.

Anyhow for those of you that play live also you will probably feel as i do that the volume at which the band gigs and rehearses at is largely governed by the drums.

So do you guys have any tips as to how to tame the level of the drums if the drummer aint the best and is playing very loud.

Is it possible for drums to sound good at lower volumes. (without the drummer smashing them)

To the kick ass drummers out there what have you found.
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A few comments. I have played live with a bunch of different drummers, bands, and guitarists in the last few years.

First, IME, it isn't always the drummer that's the volume problem. IME, it could be anyone, even the sax guy cranking up his own channel on the mixer, or the keyboard player - and it's very often been the guitarist that gets more concerned with his own sound than the band's sound. When you start playing bigger venues that need PA support for drums, then the drums DEFINITELY are not what's determining the band's volume...

Having said that, back to drums...
A good drummer understands dynamics and knows how to play at different volumes. It is harder to play drums (or any other instrument) with a softer attack and still play with a driving rockin' feel. On most other instruments though, we have the easy out (volume knob). If your drummer doesn't practice playing softer on their own, they're gonna have a really tough time doing it (well) when playing at a rehearsal or gig.

If your drummer is experienced, they will know why it matters to keep the volume under control. If they're not, you are gonna need to teach them. In my experience, it's hit or miss. I've played with a few guys that really got it, and a few that didn't. Generally the ones that didn't get the volume thing, weren't as good of drummers anyway, so I tend to move on before killing myself over it.

you'll get gigs that if the volume gets too loud, you won't get invited back. That's the ultimate lesson, but hopefully you don't have to happen to you to learn it. I've had that happen to me a few times (and the people in those places LOVED the bands, but that wasn't good enough).

Oh, and I recommend getting some decent earplugs and wearing em any time you are playing or listening in loud situations. Long term, you'll be very glad.
 
I agree that anyone on stage can drive up the volume - in fact, more often than not it is the guitar player that needs the amp "loud enough to get their sound".

That being said, too many drummers hit the drums much harder than needed to get a good sound. A good drummer understands that and poorer drummers simply don't get. I can get plenty of tone and energy out of a drum with relatively low inpact hits. I can't even remember the last time I broke a stick!!!!

Rehearsal is a good time to work on volume issues - if indeed the drummer is the problem, talk to him and ask him to work on it - in particular in rehearsal. If he seems willing and able to adjust great - if not, you need to decide where your prioity is.

Ear plugs are a must for live music - I've lost significant hearing because no one understood the risk when I was coming up in the 60's and 70's. Get decent plugs (not the industrial foam plugs that block out every frequency). It's the highs that cause the most damage - there are plugs designed to filter out the highs without impacting the lows as much.

It's great that you are back into a band thang - but make sure you enjoy it (vs, being tormented by too much stage volume).
 
mikeh said:
I agree that anyone on stage can drive up the volume - in fact, more often than not it is the guitar player that needs the amp "loud enough to get their sound".

That being said, too many drummers hit the drums much harder than needed to get a good sound. A good drummer understands that and poorer drummers simply don't get. I can get plenty of tone and energy out of a drum with relatively low inpact hits. I can't even remember the last time I broke a stick!!!!

Rehearsal is a good time to work on volume issues - if indeed the drummer is the problem, talk to him and ask him to work on it - in particular in rehearsal. If he seems willing and able to adjust great - if not, you need to decide where your prioity is.

Ear plugs are a must for live music - I've lost significant hearing because no one understood the risk when I was coming up in the 60's and 70's. Get decent plugs (not the industrial foam plugs that block out every frequency). It's the highs that cause the most damage - there are plugs designed to filter out the highs without impacting the lows as much.

It's great that you are back into a band thang - but make sure you enjoy it (vs, being tormented by too much stage volume).
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Good advice there mate thanks.

Yes i am umming and ahhhing about earplugs. But i think it should be done.

Do you have any recommendations for earplugs?

I do a fair bit of mixing and mastering and i don't want to stuff my ears any more than the are now but ear plugs to me is like having sex with a condom maybe.

But then again when it gets loud you can probably differentiate between the frequencies better with ear plugs.
 
I've pondered this very subject at length. Yeah, most of the time, the guitarists are the volume whores and I have to hit my drums accordingly just to hear myself. Just last night at practice, I went the opposite way and tried playing softer as they got louder so they just couldn't hear me and surprisingly, I could play alot of the really fast stuff much better. The guitarists got the hint and turned down accordingly so they could hear me and we had the best sounding practice ever last night.
 
You could allways use dampeners to dampen the sound of your Drums Or you could Fill your Drums with Pillows and Put a Bunch of Duct Tape on your Cymbals so they aren"t as Loud.....

I have Done this Before but it doesn"t Particularilly Sound Very Good Live (It actually Sounds pretty Good when recording though) but it does work for Bringing down the Volume.....

I recomend a Good Set of Ear Pluggs.....
 
pingu,

I don't recommend hearing protection when mixing and mastering. Any hearing protection no matter how good, impacts frequencies and when mixing and mastering you need to hear every subtle nuance.

Candidly, there should be no reason volume needs to be loud when mixing/mastering - mainly because fatique occurs much quicker and as importantly, almost any music may sound "good" loud - but when played softer you can better identify and isolate the various frequencies. If something sounds good quiet it is almost certain to sound good louder. (Naturally, a brief reference here and there at louder volume does have some benefit).

Regarding quality hearing protection: The best option is to consult with an audiologist. These days you can buy custom molds designed to limit specific frequencies (these cost in the $100 - $200 range but are worth the investment). Another option while not as effective (but certainly less expensive) most music stores (GC, etc) should have plasiic plugs with filter cavities - designed to focus more on high end frequencies (these may cost in the $20 range). The least effective option are the industrial foam plugs - while the least expensive, these simply reduce dbs across the frequency range - not ideal for a musician.

fritzmusic mentions that he can play faster licks at lower volume - this is a natural benefit. When drummers hit harder they tend to grip the sticks tighter and the hands, wrist, earms, etc tighten up. This significatnly compromises technique.

Minion - I can't really agree with you about pillows, tape etc. Drums are an accoustic instrument which must breath, resonate and project. To compromise that is to compromise the instrument and thus the music. I think if you do some research you with find that on a professional level the vast majority of drummers, engineers and producers do not overly muffle drums.

After playing drums for 40 years I've come to the conclusion that over muting tends to be something beginning engineers do (because it can be easier to get a "workable" drum sound - vs. a great drum sound). Drummers that allow their drums to be muted in that manner are making a mistake.
 
playing too quiet!

I found this to be interesting and surprising. I've found just the opposite as a problem. Usually, the problem is that drummers aren't loud and steady enough. You should be able to compress/limit the signal? That was the first thing I learned on my first drumming-recording session. Another point is, like I think someone mentioned, the drums don't resonate well at lower volumes. Drums really need to be hit hard to get that rockin' sound IMHO.
 
Certainly the drums have to be hit with some authority to get tone and resonance - however, with proper technique you can draw plenty of tone and volume out of a drum without hitting too hard.

I've seen too many drummers who grip sticks too tight because they are hitting too hard. This has an adverse effect since it can actually choke the drum head (not to mention the pits it can put into a head, which can really suck the life out of a drum sound).
 
Put headphones on the drummer, and make sure the volume on the drums is turned louder than everyone else. It may take a while but eventually he will lighten up. I've done this with a couple of drummers and had almost instant positive results. For some reason drums don't seem to sound as loud to drummers as they do to everyone else. Drummers who are used to playing in large open spaces develope a style of playing hard which is often too hard for small practice areas or in the studio. Of course a wall of amps cranked to 11 is fine in an arena but dosen't work well in a 12X16 practice room either. Maybe everyone needs to turn down a little, don't lay all the blame on the drummer and he will be more likely to lighten up.
 
I like puttin them inside plexiglass enclosures and turning the sends down a bit if they are really good. If they aren`t that good, a tape deck right out of the board every time you rehearse or play live might make a good learning tool for the drummer.
 
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