Sustain Problem with Ibanez RG w/Dunlop Performers

Drummerbones

New member
DUNCAN...not, Dunlop. The title says it all. I had a pro add a tremel-no to lock down the guitar (love the tuning and locking of a floyd rose, never us a whammy bar) and added Dunlop performer pickups. He said the tremel-no would actual increase sustain because of the solid construction connecting the back of the guitar more...I lost touch with the guy and now I'm on my own. Even my local guitar center guy scratched his head at this (he was a new guy). I use a Line 6 Pod Pro footboard and/or a marshall amp. It doesn't matter what I do, pedal first, no pedal straight to the amp cranked... the notes just drop off after about 1.5 seconds. Open strings sustain well, but especially with higher fret work, there's just nothing. The action is gr! eat and I even tried lowering the pick-ups thinking they were too close to the strings with no luck. Is this guitar just not made to sustain, only shred? I have compression as an option on the Line 6 pedal but it doesn't really help the sustain, just increases noise as to be expected. I'm at a loss. HELP
 
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How's the neck? Is it straight? If your neck is bowed it could cause some of this and a simple adjustment of the truss rod may solve it.
 
The guitar is tip top. The action is nice, straight neck, the pick-ups are set well (I've tried all options)...it's wierd. I did some homework and as long as the set up is good and the strings are locked down well at the nut and the FR, there should be no problem. I've played with it some more, and with boosted compression I can get greater sustain, but it's more of the feedback type. I'm looking to hold true notes longer. Perhaps the Duncan Performers are not the right fit for my needs? I've looked into "toys" like the sustainiac, but surely there's a better way. A Boss CS-3 won't do any more than the comp I already have going. Maybe it's time to take it back to a tech. Any other ideas?
 
Aside from the pickups being too close to the strings so that the magnets are exerting too much force on them, the sustain should be a function of the non-electric parts of the guitar; no amount of effects and whatnot are going to change that. A few things to look at:

1) Instead of the tremol-no, you might try just fitting a piece of wood into the space between the tremolo block and the tail end of the trem cavity. Seems like that would give you more bridge-to-body contact.

2) A crummy neck joint will kill the sustain. Is this a bolt-on neck, and did you get it used? For one, make sure it's good and tight. Also, to get the action nice and low, some folks will shim the neck to add a little angle to it. If the shim material is too soft (e.g. cardboard or too-soft plastic), it absorbs too much of the string vibration. If it's a used guitar, you might check to see if there's anything in there.

3) Have you tried different strings? It could be a bad batch, and you may get better sound with heavier-gauge strings.
 
DUNCAN...not, Dunlop. The title says it all. I had a pro add a tremel-no to lock down the guitar (love the tuning and locking of a floyd rose, never us a whammy bar) and added Dunlop performer pickups. He said the tremel-no would actual increase sustain because of the solid construction connecting the back of the guitar more...I lost touch with the guy and now I'm on my own. Even my local guitar center guy scratched his head at this (he was a new guy). I use a Line 6 Pod Pro footboard and/or a marshall amp. It doesn't matter what I do, pedal first, no pedal straight to the amp cranked... the notes just drop off after about 1.5 seconds. Open strings sustain well, but especially with higher fret work, there's just nothing. The action is gr! eat and I even tried lowering the pick-ups thinking they were too close to the strings with no luck. Is this guitar just not made to sustain, only shred? I have compression as an option on the Line 6 pedal but it doesn't really help the sustain, just increases noise as to be expected. I'm at a loss. HELP

Jeez, I was a Tremol-no beta tester. :p

The Tremol-no should help somewhat, but isn't a magic bullet. Really, the difference is the way vibrational energy is handled by the bridge - a floating bridge will, when it gets hit with a heavy pick attack, oscillate slightly sympathetically. This ribs some vibrational energy from the string, and slightly dampens sustain. Not hugely, and if you're a trem guy it's a fair tradeoff, but it does rob a little. If a Tremol-no is properly installed and locked down, however, then the bridge CAN'T oscillate. This means all the energy from your pick stays in the string, giving you a clearer, more bell-like attack, and a slight but significant sustain boost - say, an extra 10%, in my experience. It's not much, but it's there.

However, if your open strings are fine but fretted notes don't sustain, to me that says one of two things are happening - one, your pickups are way too high even after you lowered them, and the magnets are dampening sustain. How far away from the strings are they, if you fret the 24th fret? Or, two, you could have fret buzz on the upper frets, and the strings could simply be choking. This could be due to any number of factors, from a high fret somewhere, to simply a high nut and too-low bridge allowing open notes to ring out but fretted notes to buzz. When you play unplugged, do you hear ANY fretbuzz? You actually don't want a straight neck, you want it slightly concave (fret the 1st and 24th, and look at the 12th fret - do you see any space between the string and the top of the fret?), and even the best neck setup doesn't matter if your nut and bridge aren't positioned ideally.

I mean, a RG isn't a Les Paul... But I play an Universe, and into a high gain head I've never had problems getting enough sustain.

Also worth a try, as sort of a last recourse - even if you don't hear fret buzz, raise your action a little. Higher action seems to help notes bloom more.
 
Good stuff Drew.

DanW

I bought the guitar brand new and aside from the tremol-no and new pick-ups, there have been zero modifications. It is a bolt-on neck, I'll make sure it's locked down tight. I've tried various strings with no change.

I've been up and down the neck and there's zero buzz anywhere. I'll try lowering the PU's even more and then raised the action a little. If that doesn't do it, who knows. I actual did have a block of wood in the guitar before the tremol-no...didn't help sustain.

Last resort I suppose I'm looking at trying a Fat Finger. Thanks to all.
 
Good stuff Drew.

DanW

I bought the guitar brand new and aside from the tremol-no and new pick-ups, there have been zero modifications. It is a bolt-on neck, I'll make sure it's locked down tight. I've tried various strings with no change.

I've been up and down the neck and there's zero buzz anywhere. I'll try lowering the PU's even more and then raised the action a little. If that doesn't do it, who knows. I actual did have a block of wood in the guitar before the tremol-no...didn't help sustain.

Last resort I suppose I'm looking at trying a Fat Finger. Thanks to all.

I'm not sure how much difference a Fat Finger would really make.

How high is your action at the 12th fret? At the 24th? How far from the string in mm are your pickups if you fret the low E at the 24th fret?

Also, when you say 1.5 seconds of sustain, is that unplugged or through a distorted amp?
 
FatFinger

Good stuff Drew.

DanW

I bought the guitar brand new and aside from the tremol-no and new pick-ups, there have been zero modifications. It is a bolt-on neck, I'll make sure it's locked down tight. I've tried various strings with no change.

I've been up and down the neck and there's zero buzz anywhere. I'll try lowering the PU's even more and then raised the action a little. If that doesn't do it, who knows. I actual did have a block of wood in the guitar before the tremol-no...didn't help sustain.

Last resort I suppose I'm looking at trying a Fat Finger. Thanks to all.

I have tried the FatFinger. It does work. It is a bit ugly on your guitar. I used it out of curiosity on my Martin HD-28 and definately noticed a difference. The added mass helps to dampen vibrations in the headstock that are wasted energy. by having the headstock as rigid as possible more energy stays in the string, increasing sustain. I ended up replacing my stock corian nut and micarta saddle with bone and that was enough to improve my sound. Martin now uses bone at the nut and saddle on HD-28's and other guitars.
VP:cool:
 
The action at the 12th fret is 1/8" of an inch (sorry, couldn't find my ruler with mm's). At the 24th, maybe a fraction less...not much at all, maybe 1/2 a mm. Fretting at the 24th on the low E, the string is maybe only 2 to 3 mm above the pick up...not much clearance. And I will say, the higher the notes get, the shorter the sustain. FYI - The drop off is with the guitar plugged in and cranked up. Sounds like the pickups are way too high???
 
Okay, I got it guys. After adjusting the pick-ups through trial and error, kinda, for awhile, and pushing the gain on my amp and effects to the max, Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. No problems with sustain now. HOWEVER (ha) my sound is a lot dirtier and not nearly as tight as I would like...i.e., I have less control now with noise and unwanted sounds. I know I don't have the right guitar, amp, talent, anything, but after a lot of thought I guess I'm more after a Carlos Santana sound. Not exactly the same guitar sound he captures, but the ability to take a guitar sound of your choosing (doesn't have to be a screaming metal tone) and get nice sustain from it. Right now I'm compromising ideal sound in some regard to get sustain I also want.

*Please insert new gear I should buy and endless praying & lepricon pleaing I should do here__________________*

:D :D
 
Bump. So it is required that all gear is screaming in order to get a nice sustain? I'd be nice to achieve a sold sustain at a decent volume.
 
Bump. So it is required that all gear is screaming in order to get a nice sustain? I'd be nice to achieve a sold sustain at a decent volume.

Have you tried a compressor?
Other than having a guitar that sustains naturally that would be my second choice to get sustain,after that cranking the amp full tilt.
 
Well Maybe install one of those sustainer Pickups , they supposedly will give you infenate sustain ....

Or maybe install an active preamp .... I recently got an new ESP which is a great playing guitar but the pickups just weren"t very powerfull and it had terrorable sustain so I installed a simple active electroncs setup and now it sustains for days .....


Cheers
 
I recommend you do all your adjusting on your guitar with nothing in the signal chain but guitar and amp. Your amp should be set on a clean tone without any emphasis on treble or bass. I don't have any experience with Duncan Performers but if they are very hot they may have to be set surprisingly low not to interfere with the strings magnetically. The Idea is to make the guitar itself sound the best it can before you monkey with the signal chain.

If you can't get a good tone clean, using effects to get there is dressing up a pig.
 
I agree Lee. Ultimatley I'd like to have a good, clean sustain without cranking a distoring my sound beyond recognition. My normal "sound" is not a screaming metal attack. I like a strong, powerful, yet controlled sound that let's my playing do the dramatics. If I can achieve sustain this way, before the bells and whistles, I would be very happy.
 
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