Stupified

Slackmaster2K

Slackmaster2K

Gone
So I'm looking into getting a decent vocal microphone. Oh my god there are way too many choices. I'm certainly not going to go try out every mic in the local music store..especially since I can't sing in public :)

The microphone will run into my silly little Fostex 4-track machine which then runs into the even-sillier SB16 in my computer. I have no source for phantom power so if it's a condensor mic it'll have to run on a battery.

The budget here is around $150. I know that's not much but it should be enough to get me into the game.

So far I've come across:

1) A Shure Beta 58a for $160 at musicians friend. Seems like a good deal and I've heard good things about this mic.

2) A Shure BG 5.1 condensor for $150 at Radio Shack of all places (thanks Dragon). Don't know if this one will work in my setup.

3) Audio Technica...I have no idea which model but the salesmen at the music store showed me a mic they claimed was better than the SM58 (they sell both BTW), and sold for around $130. Any idear what that could be?

And about a gazillion other mics from a gazillion other manufacturers in this price range. Some condensor, mostly dynamic. Blah. Some of you have heard me sing, and you know how cheap my setup is, what would you recommend? I just want something with more life than my SM57 for vocals...and I'm also hoping that it will be a little nicer for micing my acoustic.

I probably won't hear the difference between the various "vocal" mics in this price range since I'm new to this...I just want something that is noticably better than the SM57 and reasonably priced. Particulary something with a decent resale value. Any good deals out there?

Slackmaster 2000
 
Hey Slackmaster

I have a couple AKG C1000S's condesors that work well for acoustics and vocals. Can be run on an internal 9V battery or phantom. Should fall in that price range. The audio technica could be the ATM63. I seem to remember it being a bit more than the 57 or 58, but I can't say as it's great on vocals. Use it on snare the odd time.
 
Emeric:

Ha, that's a dangerous road to go down. You start at $150 and suddenly $200 doesn't sound bad and if you're going to spend that much what's an extra 70 bucks and so on and so forth. My inital budget was $100 and I'm already looking in the $200 range :)

I think what I'll do is cruise back down to the music store and take a couple mics home. I think I can weasle a Beta 58 out of em for an afternoon. Then I'll have a better idea about this stuff. Right now I'm still standing on the bottom rung.

As far as the C1000 boosting highs...I'm not sure I want that. I want something that will boost lows like the 58 is supposed to. I find the SM57 to be way too mid-ranged and therefore is fine on highs but not great for lows. I have to set that stupid microphone at about the 12th fret mark on my acoustic before it picks up the bottom strings well enough. Maybe my thinking is flawed though. I really need some experience.

Thanks for the info. I feel like I have a better knowledgebase of popular microphones in my price range which really helps a lot....especially when salesman start throwing model numbers around.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Most microphones in the $150 range are not going to be much better than what you are using now - unless you find a great deal on a used one. If you want a great dynamic mic, I would save a little longer and get an EV RE-20. It is dynamic, but sounds like a condesor. Yes it is a little more than what you budgeted for, but it is a mic that will stick with you for the rest of your recording life.

[This message has been edited by Fishmed (edited 12-01-1999).]
 
Layth: thanks for the url. That site has some good prices and is much easier to navigate than others that I've been on lately (e.g. musiciansfriend..eesh).

Emeric:

Checked out the AKG C1000S at 8th street. Looks like it's about $200 which is a bit overbudget, but not too much. Plus it comes with free AKG headphones which is pretty cool. You say that it's a pretty good mic? Do you know how it would compare to the BG5.1 or Beta 58?

Fishmed:

I know I know....but I'm just a cheapass. I looked up the RE-20 on 8th street and they say it's a condensor. Is that a misprint? $450 is out of my range though. I just want to be in a position where I have the minimum tools to get the job done. So far I have plenty of low-quality stuff that's working just fine. What I need now is a microphone for vocals because I'm hoping that a vocal mic won't be as dull and "mid-ranged".... not the mention that recording an acoustic guitar with the 57 SUCKS.

Anyway, once I've got that my next step is to get a cheapo bass combo. Then I should be comfortable. Right now it's ridiculous. I'm not unhappy with the sound I'm getting, I'm just unhappy with what I have to go through to get it. Trying to sing into an SM57 isn't fun and trying to get an average bass tone out of a guitar amp is less fun. I'm just need enough to stay happy for another year or two, at which point I hope to be in a position to do the "real" studio thing.

Thanks all!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slackmaster:

Not sure how it compares with the Shure products. Maybe someone else on here has both that could give you an A-B comparison. Mic's like all audio stuff is somewhat subjective.

I find the C1000 to have more high end presence than the SM57. A little more upfront sounding. With acoustic, pretty much the same thing, better job capturing the high frequencies. I would be tempted to go the extra $130 and get a Rode NT-1 (never tried one of these either, but have heard some good recordings with them, cheaper than the NT-2, just doesn't have the adjustable pickup patterns, which is not that important to everyone).

Emeric
 
If that is the range you are staying at, I can respect that. I would suggest going with the SM58. It does sound better than the SM57 for vocals. Save that little extra cash and apply it towards that bass combo.
 
I used a Fostex 4-track (model 280) for quite a long time with a sm57. I made my share of dull acoustic guitar recordings until I picked up a used preamp (dbx 760x- sitting know in my closet) and inserted a compressor. All of a sudden my studio came alive. The sm 57 is a great mic, but it needs a little help to get the most out of it.
Check out Art's Tube amp (@ $120.00 new), or like me, find the dbx unit. I Paid $65.00 for mine. It is a Stereo/Mono with phantom power with excellent sonic detail- can't beat that.

The sm57 has been used to record bass drums by groups like the Hot Chili Peppers for example, and vocals for people like Alanis Morrisette-that gives you an idea of its versatility.

Still, whatever your choice and as long as you use your Fostex, the best thing you can do for your sound is to invest in a preamp.
 
First off, there is nothing special or particularly great about the SM57. It's a standard, durable dynamic mic, but that's it. The Red Hot Chili Peppers can use it for bass drum only because they have Flea playing bass --- Any band that's got Flea on bass could record their bass drum with a boom box and still sound good!

If the budget is $150, I'd suggest first looking for a used large diaphram condenser. Of course, most of these use phantom power, but there are a few that can run on batteries. Your next best choice is a decent small diaphram condenser --- like the AKG C1000, the Shure BG 4.1, or one of several Audio Technica types. The particular brand isn't so important as the type --- Believe me, condensers are way better than dynamics. It isn't just frequency range; condensers pick up more detail and handle transients better; They are just better sound reproducers, period.
I hope that helps !!
 
The only time I ever got to compare a shure 57 with another mic was in the late 60's and we were a touring folk group AKA Christie minstrels. We used the Shures on stage and then had the opportunity to record in a studio with a U-87's. We were all slack jawed at the difference, and it wasn't subtle. Kind of like reality versus something else.

I know I'm talking huge difference here but if we're talking vocals, you can easily HEAR the difference.
 
The last song I recorded the guitars with a SM57, 2 C1000's, and direct through POD. 4 tracks... I ended up tossing the SM57 track cause it had a grating upper-mid quality that I couldn't seem to EQ out...
I also used one to mic the snare on the drum kit... same deal... couldn't EQ the nasty freq's out of it... Ended up reverberating the hell out of it to smooth it out...
It works fine for vox when combined with a couple of C1000's, though.

S8-N
 
Oh ho!!! Sorry PPatrick, but you sparked my interest with you comment "there is nothing particarly great or spectacular about the SM-57".

I will give you the benefit of the douby here and am going to let you explain to me what is not so "great or spectacular" about the SM-57.

:) I hope you come up with something good, considering that I use this mic for a multitude of applications, and have had very good results with it.

Let's here what you have to say.

Ed Rei
Echo Star Studio www.echostarstudio.com
 
I'm with sonusman on this. Many times I'll be looking for some thing different and try-out multiples of mics for snare and electric guitar amps and I still go back to using SM-57s most of the time. In fact, I've been using Beyer MCE-93s on toms for a while now and lately, I've gone back to SM-57s on toms. It had been a while and I'd forgotten how awsome they are (even on toms). I got the idea from an interview I read in a mag.
 
Cheaper mics than a SM-57? It doesn't get any cheaper (money wise)than $77-$89US new! How do you expect to pay any less than that and get anything with quality? We're talking about electronics; where quality is not cheap. SM-57 are really under-priced, not over-rated! But don't tell Shure that; as if they don't already know that if they were to raise the price, they'd still sell nearly just as much.
 
Hey Rec. Eng., I am with you on the 57 on toms thing. Have been doing that for quite some time now. I have done sessions where Sennheiser 421's are availavble, where Audex
D series, AT Pro series, etc....and I always wind up using the 57 on toms because they deliver the type of sound that I expect from a tom mic. On electric guitar, and sometimes a horn track (usually trumpet or trombone) this mic is the BOMB!

What I believe is not "spectacular or great" about an SM-57 is the wind screen cap. That's it. That little bugger comes off too easily. The part to replace it is expensive enough to where you are just better off buying a new mic. But, that's it on my turn off lists. Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, that gives me an idea!!!! What if Dragon was to publish a calander titled "THE GUYS OF HOME RECORDING.COM" A pic featured of a members studio, and a list of likes and dislikes, stat sheet, etc......... :) Our girlfriends/wives could buy it on the hope that their significant other is in that current years calander and she can actually see her mate...... :) Dragon, you could get $100 a calander here....

Ed

P.S. I am still waiting to hear what PPatrick has to say......Don't worry guy, I won't bite..... :)
 
Probably the wrong place to post this, but S8N when are you goin to put up another song?
That last one was well constructed, (someAssy) looking forward to another.
 
Slack, here's an idea to toy with. You spend *so* much time in this field that you deserve the more expensive mic. Better gear's *appropriate* to intensive use, no matter how uneasy spending the extra money makes you. Make sense?
 
To whom it may (Layth) concern...
My next song is finished except for some backing vox that I am waiting for my drummer to come record... UNlike the vast majority of my work, this song has been well liked by most people who have heard it. It is a piece based on the misadventures of veteran funkmaster and modern-day Marquis de Sade Rick James... It is called "Rick James". It possibly sets the record for most anus references in a serious pop song... Hope to have it up soon...

S8-N

P.S. Hey Slack, bite the bullet and get a C1000... The free headphones knock at least $25 off of the relative price of the mic and you don't have to pay tax or shipping... All of my vox are done with the SM57+c1000 and together they have a pretty awesome sound for vocals...
 
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