I'm trying to do some recording, with Sonar 2 and my lovely new guitar... but when I do, I notice that the damn B string stands out more than the others, and it's driving me up the wall... can an eq solve this? if so, what do I set it at... yeah, I'm a beginner at all this... and granted, my sound card ain't the greatest for recording (i.e. SB Live) which may be the problem right there... but does anyone have any suggestions?
stupid B string...
- Thread starter cybersaga
- Start date
AlChuck
Well-known member
I'm assuming it's an electric guitar you're talking about. Are you going direct in some way, or are you miking the guitar amp?
Do you mean every note on the B string? Or just certain ones?
If it's every note, then there's something wrong with your pickups -- the signal balance of the pickups must be whacked. Are the pole pieces movable?
If it's just a couple of pitches, usually this happens because something in the signal chain is resonating with the troublesome pitch or pitches. You might be able to control it with EQ, maybe even fix it in the mix, by cutting at the right frequencies. If you are micing a cabinet. possibly the mic stand, the cabinet, or something else might be resonating. A little trial and error should tell you if that's the case and you can probably do something to reduce or eliminate the resonance.
And while the SB Live might not be the Prince of All Soundcards, it certainly doesn't cause your B-string to be recorded funny...
Do you mean every note on the B string? Or just certain ones?
If it's every note, then there's something wrong with your pickups -- the signal balance of the pickups must be whacked. Are the pole pieces movable?
If it's just a couple of pitches, usually this happens because something in the signal chain is resonating with the troublesome pitch or pitches. You might be able to control it with EQ, maybe even fix it in the mix, by cutting at the right frequencies. If you are micing a cabinet. possibly the mic stand, the cabinet, or something else might be resonating. A little trial and error should tell you if that's the case and you can probably do something to reduce or eliminate the resonance.
And while the SB Live might not be the Prince of All Soundcards, it certainly doesn't cause your B-string to be recorded funny...
hehe...
well, it's an electric acoustic, piped through an amp and out the other end into my sound card... I noticed this too with my other guitar when I just miked it... I dunno, it may be my ears or something... but it drives me up the wall...
mostly, it's when I'm strumming that it stands out, but only relatively soft strumming... harder stumming kind of drowns that out...
well, it's an electric acoustic, piped through an amp and out the other end into my sound card... I noticed this too with my other guitar when I just miked it... I dunno, it may be my ears or something... but it drives me up the wall...
mostly, it's when I'm strumming that it stands out, but only relatively soft strumming... harder stumming kind of drowns that out...
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
Have you kept your eyes on the string you use ? Since it's new guitar, then you might need to replace the string.
Jaymz
Jaymz
Paul881
Look Mom, I can play!
The B string and G string are usually the worst culprits for standing out due to their tension (as a result of gauge thickness)and sonic/timbre qualities. Multi EQ can help a lot, plus adjusting your playing style. Cheaper pick-ups don't help, the higher the note played, the thinner the sound.
You just gotta keep experimenting, changing various factors.
Its taken me 34 years to date and I still strive to improve my guitar sound
You just gotta keep experimenting, changing various factors.
Its taken me 34 years to date and I still strive to improve my guitar sound
yeah, playing style can help of course. baby the strings that are giving the higher db. it's a pain, but it will get the work done. i guess since it's an electric acoustic, you can't do intonation on the bridge, which surely would have helped, and adjusting the play. of course pick up adjusting is also not doable on an elec. acoustic. just have to hit those strings lighter. run through the track a few times doing that, and you'll probably get used to it right away, and get it right down sounding great. Chris
now is there anyway of getting rid of the background airyness? (I dunno the technical name)... like y'know, the sound you get from recording air 
you should know what I mean... how can I get rid of that background noise? it really isn't that loud, but noticeable in recording guitar and vocals...
you should know what I mean... how can I get rid of that background noise? it really isn't that loud, but noticeable in recording guitar and vocals...these digital gurus should be able to answer that. i've spent years with analog equipment. taking down the highs on the eq always helped with any kind of noise like that, which is usually a high end noise. it really shouldn't be there in the first place though, cause taking down highs too much can deaden the mix some. is it coming from the acoustic? that probably has one of those 3 or 5 band eq's on it, start there if it does. calm it down some when you record it with the guitar's eq. then you don't have so much to do later. keep messing with it while rehearsing tracks. C
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
Most people refference "air" to about 4KHz to 16KHz. You might want to roll down around there with your Eq. Be very wise, and don't let it also kill your "friendly" high freq of the signal.
Paul has given you one of the best option :
If you're miking to capture, then you may consider choose another angle and/or position. Took some experience to capture a great guitar sound. Either way, do simple way. Use V-Amp or POD...
Paul has given you one of the best option :
If you're miking to capture, then you may consider choose another angle and/or position. Took some experience to capture a great guitar sound. Either way, do simple way. Use V-Amp or POD...
cstockdale
supafly killa homey
A high end filter can cut this stuff out. What EQ tools/dynamics plugins have you got? Sometimes you can just cut everything above a certain frequency, or put a gate on particular frequencies. Other factors to consider are your gain staging: basically it is about maxing your signal:noise ratio. Can you describe your audio chain from the mic all the way to the software? That might reveal a device that is not gainstaged properly. Also consider editing out any silence in the tracks : easy for vox, but not so easy for guitar parts.
My first guess is that you haven't gain-staged properly.
My first guess is that you haven't gain-staged properly.
I wish I knew what all that meant yeah, I'm new at this all... but, I have the mic piped through an amp... the mic's an audio technica MB1000L.... the box says it's a neodymium dynamic cardioid microphone...... no idea what that means either anyways... it's piped through a bass amp actually, then from that into the line-in plug in my sound card... the patch cable has an adapter on it so it'll fit into my sound card... you probably know what I'm talking about there... I've found that those things can add some background noise sometimes... then I'm using Sonar 2.1 (huh, I haven't upgraded to 2.2... just noticed that)... and the only plug-ins I have are the default ones that come in the install...
so yeah, all that stuff, like cutting frequencies, how do you do that?
yeah, I'm new at this all... but, I have the mic piped through an amp... the mic's an audio technica MB1000L.... the box says it's a neodymium dynamic cardioid microphone...... no idea what that means either anyways... it's piped through a bass amp actually, then from that into the line-in plug in my sound card... the patch cable has an adapter on it so it'll fit into my sound card... you probably know what I'm talking about there... I've found that those things can add some background noise sometimes... then I'm using Sonar 2.1 (huh, I haven't upgraded to 2.2... just noticed that)... and the only plug-ins I have are the default ones that come in the install...so yeah, all that stuff, like cutting frequencies, how do you do that?
Fab4ever
Getting better
I'm no expert, but...
The problem may be your signal path.
I don't think running a mic into a bass amp is what you want to do (if I understood you right.) What you ought to do is go from mic to a PREamp - that's a different thing than an amp. Then from the preamp to the line-in of your soundcard.
What is a preamp? It raises the level of whatever you're micing to line level. And it does it without the noise that a guitar or bass amp will add.
What's a good, cheap preamp? Try M-Audio's Audio Buddy or ART's' Tube MP, for starters. Either can be had for less than $100.
Plus, usually a miced-up acoustic sounds better than using the pickup's signal.
Finally, I don't know anything about your microphone, but you ought to consider getting a "workhorse" mic that you can use on guitar or vocal. A Studio Projects B-1 or a Sure SM-57 would work well for that ($79 each).
Hope that helps,
Fab
The problem may be your signal path.
I don't think running a mic into a bass amp is what you want to do (if I understood you right.) What you ought to do is go from mic to a PREamp - that's a different thing than an amp. Then from the preamp to the line-in of your soundcard.
What is a preamp? It raises the level of whatever you're micing to line level. And it does it without the noise that a guitar or bass amp will add.
What's a good, cheap preamp? Try M-Audio's Audio Buddy or ART's' Tube MP, for starters. Either can be had for less than $100.
Plus, usually a miced-up acoustic sounds better than using the pickup's signal.
Finally, I don't know anything about your microphone, but you ought to consider getting a "workhorse" mic that you can use on guitar or vocal. A Studio Projects B-1 or a Sure SM-57 would work well for that ($79 each).
Hope that helps,
Fab
cstockdale
supafly killa homey
is the speaker on the amp muted? I agree with the post above this one, that this is not an ideal signal path, a bass amp on vocals and acoustic guitar isn't going to boost the right frequencies. But, with all that aside, you may have to make do with what you have until you can afford something different. I would advise a mixer with preamps (cheap ones like Behringer Euroracks 602A or 802A work well enough, Mackies are a class above them, amybe two classes above, but you pay for it). Preamps on their own are ideal, but then we are starting to really talk about money. So: to make your signal path that you have work better for now (I assume you use this because it is the only way you can amplify your vocals or acoustic guitar to get it into the PC?):
can you mute the speaker on the bass amp? Read the manual to see how you can do this, you might need a footswitch,if you don't have a manual, check out the manufacturer's website, they might have it there. The reason you want to mute it is so that the amplified sound isn't bleeding back into the mic which then sends a blend of the original sound (vox, guitar) and the amplified tone., it will start to get muddy that way, or even feedback. Thn you just use the line out of the amp to your soundcard. I use a similar path, but I don't use a bass amp, I use an acoustic guitar/vocal amp (Peavey Ecoustic 112), therefore it's preamps are well suited to both instruments. If you can't mute the speaker, set the amp up in a different room from where you are actually performing and turn the speaker away from you: you just want to monitor out of SONAR (again, another strong reason for a mixer: better monitoring options)
Once you can figure out how to do this (mute the speaker), then you can monitor the signal you are sending. Turn the amp up as loud as it can go without getting any signal distortion (clipping), unfortunately amps don't usually have clip indicators (most guitarists/bassists "live in clip" through their amps, but you don't want to clip your vox or acoustic guitar, sounds like shit). You are going to have to play around with the settings on teh amp to get the best tone you possibly can. Being a bass amp, you will likely want to roll off the low end a bit, boost the mids and the highs a touch. Make sure that in the strongest passages (when you sing loudest or play guitar the hardest ) you aren't clipping the amp. If the performance is really dynamic, but with distinct sections, it could be worth doing takes of the mellower sounds with one setting on the amp, and then when the heavier/louder sections need to be recorded, you can reset the levels to accomodate it.
The amp is going to give you noise, no doubt. but the best workaround you have at your fingers right now for no money down is to learn to maximize your signal to noise ratio. Mic placement is also an issue: try singing at different distances from the mic to see where the tone is best and where you get best S:N ratio. Same with Acoustic guitar: where are you aiming the mic? I personally like to aim the mic at the 12th fret of the acoustic guitar on a 45 degree angle towards the soundhole
o
--------x----------( ) |
12 soundhole
diagram doesn't really work: but the point is to angle the mic towards the 12th fret towards teh soundhole and the silly line with the x and brackets is schematic of the top of an acoustic guitar
when i only have one mic. Lots of ways to play, but again, teh critical step right now for you is to work on max Signal less Noise.
If you are independently wealthy, then run out an get a Mackie mixer, preamps out your wazoo and a variety of mics. But even then, if you don't have the basics of S:N down, you're still going to record shit. Great equipment only gives great sound when you know how to MAKE great sound.
good luck
can you mute the speaker on the bass amp? Read the manual to see how you can do this, you might need a footswitch,if you don't have a manual, check out the manufacturer's website, they might have it there. The reason you want to mute it is so that the amplified sound isn't bleeding back into the mic which then sends a blend of the original sound (vox, guitar) and the amplified tone., it will start to get muddy that way, or even feedback. Thn you just use the line out of the amp to your soundcard. I use a similar path, but I don't use a bass amp, I use an acoustic guitar/vocal amp (Peavey Ecoustic 112), therefore it's preamps are well suited to both instruments. If you can't mute the speaker, set the amp up in a different room from where you are actually performing and turn the speaker away from you: you just want to monitor out of SONAR (again, another strong reason for a mixer: better monitoring options)
Once you can figure out how to do this (mute the speaker), then you can monitor the signal you are sending. Turn the amp up as loud as it can go without getting any signal distortion (clipping), unfortunately amps don't usually have clip indicators (most guitarists/bassists "live in clip" through their amps, but you don't want to clip your vox or acoustic guitar, sounds like shit). You are going to have to play around with the settings on teh amp to get the best tone you possibly can. Being a bass amp, you will likely want to roll off the low end a bit, boost the mids and the highs a touch. Make sure that in the strongest passages (when you sing loudest or play guitar the hardest ) you aren't clipping the amp. If the performance is really dynamic, but with distinct sections, it could be worth doing takes of the mellower sounds with one setting on the amp, and then when the heavier/louder sections need to be recorded, you can reset the levels to accomodate it.
The amp is going to give you noise, no doubt. but the best workaround you have at your fingers right now for no money down is to learn to maximize your signal to noise ratio. Mic placement is also an issue: try singing at different distances from the mic to see where the tone is best and where you get best S:N ratio. Same with Acoustic guitar: where are you aiming the mic? I personally like to aim the mic at the 12th fret of the acoustic guitar on a 45 degree angle towards the soundhole
o
--------x----------( ) |
12 soundhole
diagram doesn't really work: but the point is to angle the mic towards the 12th fret towards teh soundhole and the silly line with the x and brackets is schematic of the top of an acoustic guitar
when i only have one mic. Lots of ways to play, but again, teh critical step right now for you is to work on max Signal less Noise.
If you are independently wealthy, then run out an get a Mackie mixer, preamps out your wazoo and a variety of mics. But even then, if you don't have the basics of S:N down, you're still going to record shit. Great equipment only gives great sound when you know how to MAKE great sound.
good luck
Paul881
Look Mom, I can play!
I agree with cstockdale, it ain't the gear, its how you use it (now where have I heard that one before
?)
I spend a long time with my mic and phones on, moving the mic around as I play the guitar to get the best tone for my track. I often get the mic at the nut of the finger board and point it back towards the soundhole. Another good position is the "over the shoulder" position with the mic in front of the left shoulder, about two feet away (0.6 Metre) pointing down at the soundhole/strumming fingers.
BTW, I also use a bass amp with a semi-acoustic and I turn the bass and high up and mids off. I then position the mic at the rim of the speaker, pointing towards the centre cone and very close in. But again, experiment with your phones on for the best sound. Oh, and I never use just the bass amp sound, I also mic the acoustic and mix the bass amp and acoustic mics together as separate inputs.
?) I spend a long time with my mic and phones on, moving the mic around as I play the guitar to get the best tone for my track. I often get the mic at the nut of the finger board and point it back towards the soundhole. Another good position is the "over the shoulder" position with the mic in front of the left shoulder, about two feet away (0.6 Metre) pointing down at the soundhole/strumming fingers.
BTW, I also use a bass amp with a semi-acoustic and I turn the bass and high up and mids off. I then position the mic at the rim of the speaker, pointing towards the centre cone and very close in. But again, experiment with your phones on for the best sound. Oh, and I never use just the bass amp sound, I also mic the acoustic and mix the bass amp and acoustic mics together as separate inputs.