structure

[topolino]

well I was reading the liner notes for a Tangerine Dream box set I got from the library, and it was saying they sometimes composed using a prismic structure. Does anyone have any idea what that might mean? is it like A-A-B-A-B-C-A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D-E... arranged in a triangle?

Also, does anyone have any other ideas for structures? most of my music is in a tree-like structure, which is the only way I can think to describe it. AABA is sort of tired, at least to me. Also thinking about a sort of holographic structure, where you have say a five-note theme, and you expand it into five parts, each part being based on the successive note, i.e. vwxyz being the theme and then the five parts being in the keys of v, w, x, y, z.

Also someone was talking about the fibonacci sequence, a+b=c, b+c=d, c+d=e... anyone have an interpretation of that?

share:

 

[brummygit]

well I was reading the liner notes for a Tangerine Dream box set I got from the library, and it was saying they sometimes composed using a prismic structure. Does anyone have any idea what that might mean? is it like A-A-B-A-B-C-A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D-E... arranged in a triangle?

Also, does anyone have any other ideas for structures? most of my music is in a tree-like structure, which is the only way I can think to describe it. AABA is sort of tired, at least to me. Also thinking about a sort of holographic structure, where you have say a five-note theme, and you expand it into five parts, each part being based on the successive note, i.e. vwxyz being the theme and then the five parts being in the keys of v, w, x, y, z.

Also someone was talking about the fibonacci sequence, a+b=c, b+c=d, c+d=e... anyone have an interpretation of that?

share:

for the benefit of the non-technical, like me, what does all that mean?

cheers

 

[NationalSandwic]

lol... yeah, i was also dumb-founded. think i actually dreamt of the a+b=c b+c=d thing last night... can't work it out.

however, the 'holographic' thing seems really interesting, I might give it a go myself, but I don't see why you want to do it. Having complex, or hidden, compositional content doesn't really constitute writing a good song. Sure, it's a way to handle the musical material, but I think you'll have your work cut out for you to make 5 keys work in one song without it becoming difficult to follow, or even boring.

just my humble opinion.

 

[Fat_Satchel]

Theres an arrangement used alot in mordern rock I havent used yet but I always recognize it when I hear it.

Sorta like your a+b=c structure (interesting btw), there will be an A and B part, either with the melody or the musical arrangent in the verses, sometimes a d+e=f for chorus/bridge/etc

I notice modern music seems to be doing away with the hook alot. Its more variable/arrangement based where a song is made up of 7 or 8 small melodic parts rather than being based around a central hook.

crap...its early and Im rambling

 

[topolino]

however, the 'holographic' thing seems really interesting, I might give it a go myself, but I don't see why you want to do it. Having complex, or hidden, compositional content doesn't really constitute writing a good song.

why I want to do it is because, as you say, it seems really interesting. I guess I tend to leave writing 'good', 'catchy' songs that 'pay' to others, and I write what interests me, which by the way I don't hear a lot of. I base my personal musical archetypes on stuff I sort of come up with intellectually rather than hear and adapt. (well, that's at least partly baloney of course. how could I 'make up' ideas that I've never heard? I guess that becomes a more philosophical question. Is there anything new under the sun?)

My interpretation of the 'prismic structure' idea was where you... okay. hold the phone. The average top 40 radio song you hear every day (if you turn on the radio) goes something like this:

A verse
A verse 2
B bridge
C chorus
A verse 3
B bridge
C chorus
C chorus (fade out or whatever)

you know, give or take. so, I had thought that a prismic structure would be a triangular shape, with A at the top, then below it A-B, below that A-B-C, below that A-B-C-D, and so on. Sounds like no one else has any further insight on that one. incidentally I think that sort of structure was used clasically to some extent.

Another way of expressing the fibonacci sequence is 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21.... still don't know how that would really work in a piece of music.

I think you'll have your work cut out for you to make 5 keys work in one song without it becoming difficult to follow, or even boring.

you say 'difficult to follow' like it's a bad thing! but seriously, I think there's a place for music that isn't so immediately accessible, that takes time to get to know. Ultimately it still has to be good, and that's still a huge challenge. 1 song with 5 keys isn't something you normally hear on that top 40 radio station.

basically, I'm tired of nickelback and MTV and all that. I have no expectations of the 'music industry' paying me or music like mine any notice, nor do I care. I just want to hear some new stuff! it's an exciting challenge to take ostensibly non-musical ideas and create structures for songs out of them. just wondering if anyone has similar goals

 

[andyhix]

I think it's a great way to get out of a rut - trying to write in an unfamiliar pattern, or make yourself work around several key changes. It's like the old trick of assigning a chord to each card in a deck of 52, shuffle, draw, and viola! you have your chord progression. Usually sounds like shit, of course, but can get you thinking in a different direction. Might as well try to start with an unlistenable monster hybrid inverse fibonacci 4-dimensional parabaloid pyramid progression, and try to massage it down to something new and interesting. Probably more satisfying than writing countless I-IV-V, verse, chorus, verse songs ad nasuem.