String arrangement?

alschmid

New member
Hey Guys and Girls

Does anyone of you know where I can read/learn about how string and orchestra arrangement is done?
Ok, this may sound weird - but I'm sure there are some guidelines like the rules about fifth parallels and so on...

I just want my strings to sound at least A BIT more real. And I think it has a lot to do with the arrangement of the string section...

Thanks a lot
al
 
I understand your question...

For me I dont think of how the strings are arranged more then how they are played. Dont let your motive limit your use of strings. To make them sound more real think about how they are played and for arrangement, well listen to the classical masters of the art. Then break the mold.

Some things i like to do are take a chord like Cmaj and for strings I like to play the 3rd Octava. open chords sound very nice and airy that way and can really color a piece with strings.
 
ill try haha

Think of how a string instrument is played. Like the violin. Theres a bow which is draged along the strings, at some point the bow either changes direction to sustain the sound or is lifted to stop it. Also violin strings can be plucked, the bow is often slammed against all the strings or 2 of them. Think of how the player adds vibrato to the sound. How the notes are fingered, or how the player slides to notes sometimes. Listen to how they do all these things, and learn to train your mind to understand the simbiant relasionships between musician and instrument. A better example is a wind instrument. Such as a SAX or flute. Sure on a keyboard you can hold the note forever, but a flute player has to "breath" at some point. If you want to make your arrangment feel more realistic, know how the instrument is played, and the techniques used in playing it, and remember this when arranging parts for it in your music. The end result will be more natural in sound and feel, hell you might even fool some people!
 
Re: I understand your question...

Thanks for the reply. But I was refering to this.

Some things i like to do are take a chord like Cmaj and for strings I like to play the 3rd Octava. open chords sound very nice and airy that way and can really color a piece with strings. [/B]

What you mean by the 3rd Octava?
 
ok

its simple... Lets take a C major chord. C-E-G.
Now to do what i said simply play the C-G and the E an octave higher then its original note. You do know what an octave is right?
If not, look at a keyboard, or piano, the notes repeat themselves every 12 notes. So if you started with a C note, then count 12 keys going up or down you will land on the same note but it will be either an OCTAVE higher or lower then where you started.
 
Re: ok

Sigma9 said:
its simple... Lets take a C major chord. C-E-G.
Now to do what i said simply play the C-G and the E an octave higher then its original note. You do know what an octave is right?
If not, look at a keyboard, or piano, the notes repeat themselves every 12 notes. So if you started with a C note, then count 12 keys going up or down you will land on the same note but it will be either an OCTAVE higher or lower then where you started.

I don't see how any of this could be a problem. String players can play any note so long as it's within the instrument's range. The bottom note for a violin is G below middle C, for a viola the C below that, for a cello an octave below that, and a double bass a sixth lower again. Just give the bottom notes to the cello, the top to the violin. If you want to invert your chords, assign the notes to different instruments.

As for what sounds good: try your arrangement out on your keyboard or piano, and use your ears. Close intervals like thirds sound good played high, but are muddy and unplesant in the bass. So invert the interval: take the top note and play it an octave lower - so a major third becomes a minor sixth (alternatively, put the bottom note up an octave). Another rule of classical harmony is to avoid all voices moving in the same direction, so if using four-part harmony, if three parts move down. one will move up (am I making this clear?) Classical rules, like all guidelines, are made to be broken however, provided you understand why you're breaking them. So, again, it's your arrangement, you're the judge.

The sound of the strings depends a lot on how the player bows a piece. You've got Down bow and Up bow. A single note played on one down stroke of the bow generally sounds stronger than a run of notes on a single bow stroke. Some composers and arrangers like to specify how the bowing is done, others leave it up to the players. I think if you're writing for an ensemble, you'd need to be fairly specific. If you're simulating instrument sounds in MIDI, then you can get a fairly realistic bowing effect by tying the notes of a phrase to each other.

Sarah
 
Last edited:
Thanks, Chewie.

But actually it's more years than I care to remember since I studied any music theory, so I'm sure there are people here much more qualified than I. But I do love good harmony. What I can suggest is you listen to examples of good harmony: you'll find basic, no-surprises homophonic 4-part harmony in most hymns, so why not download a few from a Christian MIDI site and deconstruct them in your sequencer, or get a few scores if you read music. For the glories of polyphony, listen to the Master, J.S.Bach. His Concerto for Two Violins is a treat. For MIDIs try the Classical Archives http://classicalarchives.com .

(Polyphony: literally means "many sounds", where the separate voices move apparently independently, while still harmonising - as in Couterpoint. Homophony: All parts move together.)

Happy listening.

Sarah
 
Sequencer? What's that? I'm ignoran of all things MIDI.
Are they any good sites you think are reliable which talk about Polyphony? I think that that is really cool sounding.
 
Chewie said:
Sequencer? What's that? I'm ignoran of all things MIDI.
Are they any good sites you think are reliable which talk about Polyphony? I think that that is really cool sounding.

Oh, gosh - well here goes.

MIDI stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface, and is basically a set of commands to play notes, so that different electronic instruments (including the MIDI synthesizer that comes with your PC soundcard) can communicate with each other. Think of it as a modern type of piano roll. A sequencer is an application that allows you to compose or adapt MIDI files - you may want to write a complicated piece of music from scratch, or perhaps you may want to simply change some of the instrument sounds (or "patches" as they're called in MIDI-speak), adjust the speed of the music, etc. A sequencer will allow you to do all that. Most MIDI files are composed by linking a keyboard through the joystick port of your computer and entering the notes that way, but it is possible to manage without, either using a mouse and a "virtual keyboard" on the computer, by drawing "notes" on a piano-roll type thingy, or entering notes on a stave. If that is what you prefer, a notation program (I use MOZART) would be best . Otherwise there are good programs like Cakewalk, or there are several free sequencers to try - I think Anvil Studio from http://www.anvilstudio.com is very good.

Re: your other question - I'll have to do a search, but I'm sure there are some good sites you can visit. I'll check some out and get back. Meanwhile, take a tour of the Classical Midi Archives and listen to some Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi, all masters of the Baroque period, and get an idea of how the different voices weave around one another. Magic!

I hope this helps.

Sarah
 
Realistic sounding ideas

Hi chewie:

I have a few ideas about this depending on what kind of gear you have. A friend of mine used a mixture of patches from three different keyboards recently to make his strings sound more human. I think he had an Ensoniq VFX, Kurzweil K2000, and the other was the Korg Wavestation. He found patches that were similar enough for the violins, and cellos etc, then doubled the recording on different tracks and blended them in to together in the mixdown.

I compared this to a great arrangement that I thought I did about 4 years ago with just the Ensoniq, and the difference was a little bit daunting.

I guess my point is, if you happen to have more than one synthesizer, but don't like the sounds of the older one alone, you may be able to use it to spread the sounds of the new one and give each instrument more life for after blending them. Just a thought.
 
I agree that mixing different sounds of strings can make the arrangement more realistic. I love string arrangements, and I've tried many things to make those electronic strings sound more human...I've come to the conclusion that as it has been said before, when it comes to strings, orchestration becomes really important.
The problem is that modern synths give us the illusion that with each string patch, we have an orchestra at our disposal...not true. It's always good to mix different patches, for example one for each section: violins, cellos, etc...the reason being that in real life, these instruments often play different parts forming a chord. For example: cellos will play lower notes forming the chors, violins higher notes.
Of course this is only an example, and the possibilities are endless. Another thing is the quality of the sounds and the modulations that they offer. I work with a Korg Trinity, which in my opinion has the best string sounds on the market.

hope this helps.

Almiro
 
Hi All!

What a fine topic and some good info has certainly been shared.

Anyway, I play violin and viola - as well is in ensembles (quartets and orchestra). I also have a fairly decent set of synth sounds via the classical Q-Card on my Alesis QSR (dated, I know..but they're not too bad...)

There are years (or a lifetime) to be spent studying the areas of theory, chord analysis, arranging/composing, etc... to really master it all (I certainly am no guru either..ha!) So it's hard to say there's a magic wand to wave to achieve a nice string arrangement. But having said that, you can go to a book store - prefereably a University that has a school of music, and buy a Theory 101 text/work book - as well as one on arranging. Such a book should answer basic "Do's and Don't's" for solid theory and harmonic structure.

Listen to Brahms - THAT guy painted a picture with his orchestral palette!

Using MIDI for your strings ads another twist to it all.

Be careful of the string patches that give you the 'full' orchestra - (like 4 octaves of a unison note or some such)..I mean unless that's the sound you want...(Almiros post is good here) but once you start building chords with such a patch, it will do things a real string section probably would never do - that is, each string family instrument playing in unison all the time...but like I say, if it sounds good for your tune, use it!

There are so many ways a group of strings can play one chord or note, that a coresponding synth sound is indeed a daunting search...which is why there are so many presets (arco strings, big strings, small ensemble, solo cello, etc.....)

Back to the arranging part..IF ultimately you will be using real players, then a basic solo string sound will be fine for auditioning basic sonic integrity as you write/arrange. Worry about the parts and their interplay, etc... (using your new books at this point - knowing that things will probably change even AFTER the real folks play it through and you hear what works.)

Once for fun, I took a piece I wrote/arranged and recorded 6 tracks of first violin, 6 tracks of second violin, and 6 of viola. I then used a pretty straight UNISON cello section preset and 2 solo bass presets, and there was NO comparison to ANY synth I have heard. ..granted I got tired of playing the piece 18 times, but still...

So to address your question again (sorry for the lomg post - I get excited about it all!)

- Find beginning or intermediate books on theory and orchestral arranging

- Pay attention to how your synth presets sound when stacked as your part would be played by real players.

- If you can, gather/hire/bribe real players to try your stuff on.

- Most of all, use your ears. If the piece sounds good, don't let a theory book that's says you are 'wrong' cause you to change your mind or approach (i.e. Bach who clearly stepped on many theory 'rules' quite regularly)

Good luck with it all!
 
sonic quality

The violin, viola and cello all have four strings.

from the lowest pitched string to the highest :

Violin : G D A E

Viola : C G D A

Cello : C G D A (octave below viola)

Think of the harmonic series produced by the fundamentals of the open strings and how they affect or excite one another.

Open strings always ring with more volume and amplitue or gain than do fingered or 'stopped' notes, much like acoustic guitars and other acoustic stringed instruments. Open strings will and do excite other open strings to a greater or lesser degree based on their fourth, fifth or octave relationship, their relative harmonic series as they occur in relation to the other open strings.

The same effects are true for fingered strings, (fingered thus a new fundamental and new harmonic series). Stopping a string, (fingering a string), creates a new fundamental with it's own harmonic series, and any fundamental will excite or cause sympathic ringing with other fundamentals whose harmonic series offer 'related harmonic nodes'.

The fundamental sonority, an open string perhaps, rings powerfully and richly, sounding all of its harmonics. The octave of the string rings bell like and pure with less gain but more pitch truth. When you create the harmonic an octave and a fifth above the fundamental, again, you lose gain, but the note becomes more pure, softer but sweeter, even more pitch true, more pure, (because there are fewer harmonics that belong to the fundamental series ringing within the produced sonority).

Any fingered note that is an octave or unison of an open string will certainly excite the open string and to varying degrees it's harmonics.

Example:

When I finger a D on the C string, the open D string an octave above will vibrate and ring quite vigorously even if I am not bowing it or plucking it also. Let's say for discussion's sake ... 1/5th the amplitude or gain of the fingered note. If the fingered note were no longer sounding, you certainly would be able to hear the open D string continue to ring 'sympathetically' as long as it is not brushed with a part of the fingering hand or a part of that hand thus 'stopping' that sympathy. Samples and electronica are always striving to reproduce these 'natural sonorities' as they might occur relative to the context of the production of the music.

Within the harmonic series of an open string you can produce an octave harmonic, (a light touch not fully stopping the string at the midpoint of the string), and this octave harmonic is the most powerfully resonating note in the harmonic series of the open string fundamental, (or stopped-fingered fundamental). The next in the harmonic series is the fifth above the octave, the next the fourth above the ocatve. I'm listing them in terms of amplitude, or gain if you will. The double ocatve harmonic loses even more strength, or gain, or amplitude, but will even more so produce that airy, pure and faery like sound.

Yes, we string players actually think about these things as we prepare to produce a note, or series of notes, sometimes making sure not to brush an open string with a finger or part of the hand while traversing on the neck, so that it can come into play sympathetically, lending it's harmonics to whatever sonority we wish to produce. Think 'feedback'. Or perhaps we purposefully will dampen an open string if we do not wish it's harmonic series to color whatever sonority we wish to produce.

This kind of thinking and playing is critical in the studio to producing a realistic and robust sound.

'Playing the fundamentals' and the harmonics they offer against or with one another, and using their harmonic relationships is very important in coloring the sonority you wish to produce. Being aware of the harmonic series of the note you are playing and how it relates to other fundamentals in use or nearby is very important.

Examples :

On Viola, playing the open C string and double stopping that sonority with an octave above, (by fingering a perfect fourth above the adjacent G string, --> C an octave above the open C string <-- ), is probably the most powerful resonance that can be produced on that instrument per bow speed and pressure. Also, the viola's size and dimensions are crafted to take advantage of this tonal range. Know where the instruments tambre and outfitting fits appropriately in your string arrangement, and you get closer to the live sound.

The fundamental harmonic series on the G string, now a C fundamental cuz' it's fingered, will respond in 'sympathy' with the open C string, and vice versa, but even more so because the true fundamental of the physical G string rings sympathetically at the perfect fourth node in response to the powerful vibration of the open C string. More simplistically, if you only play the open C string, the G string will begin to vibrate quite activly at it's fifth harmonic nodes. So if you have the Violas or Cellos pedaling on a C, then you might want to add a delicate touch of the G sonority thinking of that G sonority harmonically. This will give you the truer sound of an open C string ringing on a Viola or Cello. And yes, this practice applies to all notes on all strings in realtion to their harmonic series and the other fingered or open strings they might most excite.

Conversely, Fingering a minor third above the C string to produce an Eb sonority, and then fingering a minor sixth, (with the fourth finger on the adjacent G string), to produce an Eb an octave above is a much less harmonically active sonority, not near as powerful as an octave sounded with an open string fundamental.

Eb does not occur in ANY of the open strings' harmonic series, therefore you need to put LOTS of vibrato into an Eb and treat it extra special deliciously to get it to sound nice. Eb is a pretty dead note on all of the chin and endpin strings. This is why many persons listening to a symphony in Eb may remark the tones the string sections give off sound darker or less vibrant than say a Motzart symphony in G Major which might sparkle and ring in a much happier sonority. And there are three flats in Eb making for even fewer notes that we are able to produce sympathetic harmonic resonance with, within the instrument's overall sonority.

And no, this was not easy for me to understand, but when I did, it was a nice bright light in that phase of my training. It's now up to you to take this and try to convert that into electronica. I'll stick with the real instruments and count on you to fill me in on tips and tricks transfering some of this to electronica, lol.

I would say that when playing in the major keys, or minor keys based on the open strings, (the key of C, G, D or A; minor or major), think 'resonance', harmonics and overall vibrance.

When in keys with lots of flats or sharps, think darker and more somber, because this is how the instrument wants to sound. This is sometimes thought of as a limitation, but really it's up to the ear of the behearer. I think Gb major can be quite beautifully utilized, but I wouldn't pick it for a happy country tune with fiddle fills, I'd pick the key of A or E so as to utilize the open string's harmonic series more readily.

I hope I have helped, I love to try to put these kinds of things into words because it helps me too.

One day, I will write about this again, as it is so critical in producing the sounds that please us on these instruments.

Peace, and may the energies of music fill your body, mind, spirit and soul transporting you into the harmonic resonance we may all seek.
 
Re: sonic quality

studioviols said:
Eb does not occur in ANY of the open strings' harmonic series, therefore you need to put LOTS of vibrato into an Eb and treat it extra special deliciously to get it to sound nice. Eb is a pretty dead note on all of the chin and endpin strings. This is why many persons listening to a symphony in Eb may remark the tones the string sections give off sound darker or less vibrant than say a Motzart symphony in G Major which might sparkle and ring in a much happier sonority. And there are three flats in Eb making for even fewer notes that we are able to produce sympathetic harmonic resonance with, within the instrument's overall sonority.


This reminds me:

At a music festival recently, during a singing class, the adjudicator complained about contestants transposing their songs, and remarked that Eb was the so-called "Masonic Key". Has anyone heard this, or hazard a guess why? I sing a lot of Broadway songs, and the favourite key is indeed Eb - perhaps because so many Broadway composers were on the square - but there again, so was Mozart.

My last singing teacher, a Musical Theatre specialist, used to accompany me on the piano during lessons. She came unstuck playing a piece of Bach in the key of D. She was so accustomed to playing flats.

Just an aside!

Sarah
 
Broadway and Eb

Brass and woodwind orchestrations utilize the flat keys much more often. I have heard brass and woodwind players remark that flat keys are a much more natural environment for them to play within - as often as I have heard chin and endpin strings remark that keys whose tonic is an open string pitch tend to create more comfortable formats for them to produce sounds, within that key.

Indeed, the root fundamental of many brass and woodwind instruments , that is the note they produce when sounded without any fingers stopping valves or covering holes are flat notes. Eb clarinet, Bb trumpet, and again we can see the actual clef these instruments read within are named for flat notes.

If the root fundamental of an instrument is a flat note, then the harmonic series is based on that flat note and accordingly the physical structure of the vibrating air column is more responsive with the 'home' fundamental of a flat note. The physical matter of a brass or woodwind instrument does experience the overtone series and overt as well as sympathetic resonance and they have been crafted through the history of their development to ring in sympathy with this flatted fundamental much more readily.

This leads to the interesting conclusion that there are no flat and sharp notes, only twelve tones, (in the major minor system), and that flat and sharp notes are just a code to assist us in understanding the interworkings of these twelve tones.

As to the 'masonic' key, organizations like the masons, kiwanis, etc... tend to have a large number of veterans in their ranks. Military bands are primarily woodwind and brass, I would assume because the instruments are much more durable during the activities of a military and they are considerably louder. Pomp and Circumstance and marches, etc ... Think bagpipes ... YOWZA !

Vocalists tend to get swallowed up easily in heavy woodwind and brass arangements, so I would think that vocalists are more subconciously partial to the sonorities they become familiar with in string music as more vocal music is written with string accompaniement than brass and woodwind. And I am talking about all strings, from ukelele to mandola and citar. I do love to juke on the uke !

One of my practice methods is to sing with the viola, scales and arpeggios with vocal/chinstring are my favorite exercises, a real headrush. I tried this with woodwinds and brass ... but it doesn't seem to work :-0 Singing with a chinstring while actually playing it is an excellent way to improve both your vocal, and instrumental intonation.

Thanks for your response. I feel now that I'm a part of the great boards at what has grown into a very respectable musician community!

May your voice bring joy and comfort to those who resonate with you. Happy Holidays !

P.S. I love broadway show tunes, and they heavily influence my singer songwriting, but promise not to tell any of my contemporary rocker buddies. :-)
 
Back
Top