Steve Vai..Flexable
- Thread starter Ace2000
- Start date
Chris Tondreau
Member
Take this for what it's worth, coming from a junior member, but IMHO, gear is of secondary importance. A Fostex 8-track, as a recording medium (assuming it is one of those reel-to-reel 1/2" jobs.... were they 1/2"??) is perfectly capable of producing a quality recording. The mixer.... who knows. What mics, mic pres, etc. were used? Surely there was other equipment involved!! Vai just didn't run a direct line from his guitar to a Boss distorion pedal and into the mixer!!
My point here, is that knowing how to get a good recording is more important than having the tools to do so. Yes, this is only true to a point. Mutt Lange couldn't record ANYTHING well with a pair of vice grips and a can of paint. However, given fairly okay pro-sumer gear like mine, I bet he could make a recording in MY project studio that would beat the pants off of anything I could record in HIS studio.
Chris
My point here, is that knowing how to get a good recording is more important than having the tools to do so. Yes, this is only true to a point. Mutt Lange couldn't record ANYTHING well with a pair of vice grips and a can of paint. However, given fairly okay pro-sumer gear like mine, I bet he could make a recording in MY project studio that would beat the pants off of anything I could record in HIS studio.
Chris
Alchemist3k
New member
I think I need to interject here. I think there has been a misunderstanding. I think Vai is referring not to a Carvin mixing desk but his amp head which is the rather excellent Carvin Legacy. He uses very high end outboard effect from Eventide too. Vai's setup is, and always has been, quite sophisticated for a guitarist. His 'mothership' studio is a Pro Tools rig as well I believe.
I could be mistaken of course.
I could be mistaken of course.
heinz
New member
According to the liner notes...
"This record was recorded on a Fostex 1/4-inch 8-track machine at 15 i.p.s. in a home studio. "
Also mentions his equipment as a Carvin X100B amp & a Fender Strat.
And from his web page:
"Carvin donated a console and an X-100B guitar amplifier and Frank Zappa, God bless him, loaned tons of gear to make the recordings a reality."
More at this link
"This record was recorded on a Fostex 1/4-inch 8-track machine at 15 i.p.s. in a home studio. "
Also mentions his equipment as a Carvin X100B amp & a Fender Strat.
And from his web page:
"Carvin donated a console and an X-100B guitar amplifier and Frank Zappa, God bless him, loaned tons of gear to make the recordings a reality."
More at this link
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
Why is everybody always trying to prove that crappy gear is just as good? I have no idea what Steve used or how that album sounds but even Hendrix made some amazing albums that sounded like shit in comparison to a lot of stuff.
Dont confuse the music with the engineering. Sure the music is the most important but just because an album has great music doesnt mean it sounds great.
If you want to justify not spending money on good gear than stop buying stuff and go to a studio and leave the engineering to those with more discerning ears. There's no shame in being 'just' a musician.
Dont confuse the music with the engineering. Sure the music is the most important but just because an album has great music doesnt mean it sounds great.
If you want to justify not spending money on good gear than stop buying stuff and go to a studio and leave the engineering to those with more discerning ears. There's no shame in being 'just' a musician.
Lopp
New member
Yeah Tex, but I think the majority here realize our equipment isn't as good as a pro studio's. The more important point is to increase your skills on the equipment you do have. You can make good recordings on moderate equipment.
It has been said a quadzillion times that a good pro engineer will do a better job on our home equipment than we could on the engineer's equipment. A poor craftsman blames his tools.
It has been said a quadzillion times that a good pro engineer will do a better job on our home equipment than we could on the engineer's equipment. A poor craftsman blames his tools.
dobro
Well-known member
ROFL - Lopp's right. 
Tex is righter. Every little bit helps. If you have better gear, your sound will be better. If you have better recording experience, your sound will be better. Simple.
Which means: if you have recording experience, you'll get the best sounds possible from second-rate gear. Also, is you have little or no experience, you'll get better sounds (probably) if you use first-rate gear. Simple.
Tex is righter. Every little bit helps. If you have better gear, your sound will be better. If you have better recording experience, your sound will be better. Simple.
Which means: if you have recording experience, you'll get the best sounds possible from second-rate gear. Also, is you have little or no experience, you'll get better sounds (probably) if you use first-rate gear. Simple.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
The real question here is if Steve Vai did such a great job with that gear then why didn't he do all his albums with that setup. Why didn't Bruce or Black Sabbath do all their albums on 4track casette?
JR#97
New member
Steve Vai had the definite advantage of having worked with a guy like Zappa... I have a great interview where he talked about Flexible and said that watching Zappa do it all himself was the best school he could've ever gotten. And that's a guy that graduated Berkley! He also said in the article that understanding production is going to help you better express yourself on tape. that the idea doesn't stop at your fingers, or the tape. For him, it stops when it's mixed, manufactured, and out there. Flexible was a production learning phase. A guy like Vai is going to progress, learn more, acquire more, etc.
So for someone to sit there and say Vai did it so stop being gear snobs, is pretty bullshit. That's like saying "hey, I'm the king of the local hoops court..." and then never going to the next level. And then go talking shit at the local sports bar.
So for someone to sit there and say Vai did it so stop being gear snobs, is pretty bullshit. That's like saying "hey, I'm the king of the local hoops court..." and then never going to the next level. And then go talking shit at the local sports bar.
>>>>>>So for someone to sit there and say Vai did it so stop being gear snobs, is pretty bullshit. That's like saying "hey, I'm the king of the local hoops court..." and then never going to the next level. And then go talking shit at the local sports bar.<<<<<<<<<
Ya, but the reality is that Wayne Gretzky could go to the sports bar and talk shit to you, he would kick your ass, and everyone on your teams ass at a game of hockey.
Vai got a Gold album for a project done on a Fostex reel-to reel.
Inspiring. I think it's a kick in the face to the guys who havent sold sqaut with 50,000 worth of gear, and inpritation for those with a Fostex or something similiar.
It proves that talent isnt limited by lack of gear.
Sales are possible with a lack of gear.
Home financed projects can earn you large sums of money for more gear and more gear.
this labum proves it. Go get a copy and listen to it.
It was recorded in 1984.
Ya, but the reality is that Wayne Gretzky could go to the sports bar and talk shit to you, he would kick your ass, and everyone on your teams ass at a game of hockey.
Vai got a Gold album for a project done on a Fostex reel-to reel.
Inspiring. I think it's a kick in the face to the guys who havent sold sqaut with 50,000 worth of gear, and inpritation for those with a Fostex or something similiar.
It proves that talent isnt limited by lack of gear.
Sales are possible with a lack of gear.
Home financed projects can earn you large sums of money for more gear and more gear.
this labum proves it. Go get a copy and listen to it.
It was recorded in 1984.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
Ace2000 said:
that's the point....the album sold because of Vai's MUSICAL talants....not the other 'wizardry'. And of course, like mentioned above, the man progressed to better equipment like everyone else might/would...as success allowed. To think that if one album do ok on less than stellar gear, and to reason..."hey..I should do the rest of my recordings on this gear too!..I don't NEED better equipment" ...is completely missing the boat.
JR#97
New member
Ace2000 said:
What??? You missed the whole fucking point! YOU"RE THE ONE TALKING SHIT! Not Vai, no Gretzky.... We've all agreed that it's the music and talent and not the gear! But gear does a make difference! Springsteen recorded an album on a 4 track! So did Beck! Great!
Yes, it is inspiring! But why is it a kick in the face?
A four track isn't what I hear in my head for my stuff though. And if it takes $10,000 in gear to get the music in my head to a final product, than so be it. That doesn't make me a gear snob. it's the end result that matters. The gear is the means.
And just FYI, I do have Flexible. I bought it back in 1986.
flatrockrecordin
New member
Come on. Vai recorded that album in a small outbuilding at his first home using the equipment he had AT THAT TIME. He did a damn good job getting the most out of his gear as we all should. Now he's in a bigger house using the 2nd floor for a studio and has been constantly upgrading. BTW I think I read somewhere that some of the material on that album was some older 4 track stuff!
He knew and discovered a lot of innovative tricks and is still progressing.
He knew and discovered a lot of innovative tricks and is still progressing.
foo
Active member
Yawn!
Dr. Robert sounds great because it's a great song, and who gives a shit what it was recorded on?
As for the babes of yesterday being just as hot as the babes of today - those of us who were around back then can affirm that Yes, the babes of yesterday were babes!
and we didn't appreciate them, just as young guys today don't appreciate their girls.
. . . and the beat goes on!
foo
Dr. Robert sounds great because it's a great song, and who gives a shit what it was recorded on?
As for the babes of yesterday being just as hot as the babes of today - those of us who were around back then can affirm that Yes, the babes of yesterday were babes!
and we didn't appreciate them, just as young guys today don't appreciate their girls.
. . . and the beat goes on!
foo
Lopp
New member
This thread is almost amusing.
Somehow it seems there's an argument that doesn't exist.
I don't think anyone said "better gear won't make any difference." So why is it being read into the posts?
I also don't think anyone said "you can't make a good recording with good skills but mediocre equipment." So why is it being read into the posts?
Many get caught up in the trend of thinking their mixes suck because they don't have good enough gear. Whereas mixes usually suck from a lack of experience and skill.
We all wish we could afford a $100k studio. We all understand that better equipment helps. Many of us dump all of our spare pennies into our studio.
The point of the original post is that you CAN do a good job on mediocre equipment. Not that expensive equipment won't do any better.
Somehow it seems there's an argument that doesn't exist.
I don't think anyone said "better gear won't make any difference." So why is it being read into the posts?
I also don't think anyone said "you can't make a good recording with good skills but mediocre equipment." So why is it being read into the posts?
Many get caught up in the trend of thinking their mixes suck because they don't have good enough gear. Whereas mixes usually suck from a lack of experience and skill.
We all wish we could afford a $100k studio. We all understand that better equipment helps. Many of us dump all of our spare pennies into our studio.
The point of the original post is that you CAN do a good job on mediocre equipment. Not that expensive equipment won't do any better.
Aaron Cheney
Favorite Chord: C 6/9
Experience and the quality of gear as factors in your ability to create a good recording kind of run together to a certain point. As you gan experience, train your ears, and have the opportunity to be exposed to new and more expensive gear, you are better able to understand and utilize it.
But after a point, I truly believe that gear is the single biggest factor seperating the big boys from the experienced home studio owner.
Could Mutt Lange produce a better recording on my gear than I can. Probably. Could he produce a better recording on my gear than I could on his? No way. (Of course, he's probably got gear I've never even seen/ heard of and wouldn't know what to do with. See first paragraph).
I hope I'm not comming across as arrogant by saying that, but right or wrong, I'd love the chance to try.
As far as Flexable goes, by today's standards it's not a great sounding recording. It is, however, an incredibly creative recording. (Ditto SPLHCB by the Beatles.) That's what makes it interesting. And as far as its "Gold" sales go, I'll bet far more copies have sold as a result of his more recent and better produced albums motivating fans to seek out his earlier stuff than were sold when it was new. You gotta factor that in when you start talking about it sales figures.
Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
But after a point, I truly believe that gear is the single biggest factor seperating the big boys from the experienced home studio owner.
Could Mutt Lange produce a better recording on my gear than I can. Probably. Could he produce a better recording on my gear than I could on his? No way. (Of course, he's probably got gear I've never even seen/ heard of and wouldn't know what to do with. See first paragraph).
I hope I'm not comming across as arrogant by saying that, but right or wrong, I'd love the chance to try.
As far as Flexable goes, by today's standards it's not a great sounding recording. It is, however, an incredibly creative recording. (Ditto SPLHCB by the Beatles.) That's what makes it interesting. And as far as its "Gold" sales go, I'll bet far more copies have sold as a result of his more recent and better produced albums motivating fans to seek out his earlier stuff than were sold when it was new. You gotta factor that in when you start talking about it sales figures.
Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com