Starting out on analog...what are the main considerations?
- Thread starter kartikbala
- Start date
VOXVENDOR
New member
Re: Hey Rick..........
You and me have met IRL and you know I love you, but shit man, give the non-pro element around here a little bit more credit than that...!!!!
Please tell me you were joking and forgot to mention so....
I see the point your trying to make....But..
You make it sound like the 5-7 Pros around here are the only ones who know what they are talking about.
I know were not very knowledgeable about 2" tapes and SSL Automated consoles......... But I must say, I don't see many RS mics or battery powered mixers being suggested by us non pros either......
Joe
Yo Brucie Blue Bear!!!!!!!!Blue Bear Sound said:LIGHTEN THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! *sheesh*
Anytime you want the pros here to leave buddy, so everyone can regale everyone else with accounts of which RS mic sounds better thru a battery-powered RS DJ mixer, you let me know........
You and me have met IRL and you know I love you, but shit man, give the non-pro element around here a little bit more credit than that...!!!!
Please tell me you were joking and forgot to mention so....
I see the point your trying to make....But..
You make it sound like the 5-7 Pros around here are the only ones who know what they are talking about.
I know were not very knowledgeable about 2" tapes and SSL Automated consoles......... But I must say, I don't see many RS mics or battery powered mixers being suggested by us non pros either......
Joe
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Hello Blue Bear, I appreciate the value you and other pro's bring to the board here,
and I apologize if I offended you. But I think most people here enjoy home recording, regardless what format they are using. And its like my dad says about home built aircraft. "I still get from point A to point B in my little ole byplane, doin' 100 MPH, while the guys that fly 707's are doin 600 MPH. The difference is I get to see things while I fly."
Cheers to ya Blue Bear!
fitz
and I apologize if I offended you. But I think most people here enjoy home recording, regardless what format they are using. And its like my dad says about home built aircraft. "I still get from point A to point B in my little ole byplane, doin' 100 MPH, while the guys that fly 707's are doin 600 MPH. The difference is I get to see things while I fly."
Cheers to ya Blue Bear!fitz
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Holy Fuck......... is it just me or are you guys taking me too literally?!?!?!?
Joe -- I *know* there are many non-pros here who know their stuff -- that really wasn't my point!
Rick -- I was being half-joking/half-serious about the whole thing -- my only point being exactly what I stated my point was in my earlier post -- I was neither offended, nor was I trying to offend you or anyone else!
Besides -- all this amounts to my own personal opinion.... no one has to adopt it for themselves --- use whatever works for ya!!!
YMMV... batteries not included.... don't try this at home.... we are not responsible for articles left after 90 days.... do not remove this tag under penalty of law.... yada-yada.......!
Joe -- I *know* there are many non-pros here who know their stuff -- that really wasn't my point!
Rick -- I was being half-joking/half-serious about the whole thing -- my only point being exactly what I stated my point was in my earlier post -- I was neither offended, nor was I trying to offend you or anyone else!
Besides -- all this amounts to my own personal opinion.... no one has to adopt it for themselves --- use whatever works for ya!!!
YMMV... batteries not included.... don't try this at home.... we are not responsible for articles left after 90 days.... do not remove this tag under penalty of law.... yada-yada.......!
Sennheiser
New member
We don't see ya 'round these parts too often Blue Bear.
I didn't think Rick was gonna leave you much to sit down on after last night.
We're pretty defensive about analog recording here. Glad you stopped by. Sorry about all the ass-chewing. We may not be pro's, but we should at least act like we are.
No hard feelings.
I didn't think Rick was gonna leave you much to sit down on after last night.
We're pretty defensive about analog recording here. Glad you stopped by. Sorry about all the ass-chewing. We may not be pro's, but we should at least act like we are.
No hard feelings.
Recording Engineer
Moderator
I won't go as far as Blue Bear and say if it's not 2"/24-trk. then it's not pro, but I will say I understand the "jist" of that statement.
Quite frankly, I feel design and component and hardware quality is going to make much more of a difference than track-width! Anyone who has ever used a Fostex G24-S (1"/24-trk.; 0.0415 ipt w/ Dolby S) can confirm that general statement!
If it's a 2"/24-trk., then more than likely, the design and components and hardware quality used are going to be at least noticeably better than the more "budget" open-reel recorders. We know this is not always the case, but I bet we can make a general statment saying that... Assuming we know there are exemptions to that.
But even with that said, to tell you the truth, this whole "analog vs. digital" when it comes to multi-track recorders, I find it a ridiculous joke! Unless it's 2"/24-trk. @ 15ips with Dolby SR, give me 24-bit/24-track with good converters (and being able to upgrade the converters as I have the money) and a decent analog console to mix through, and I'll be happy!
The house engineer at a small, popluar studio in Berkley, CA (which has high-profile acts under their credits) has told me they have a 2"/24-trk. Otari MTR-90II running @ 30ips, 4 (32-trks.) ADAT XT20s, and full-blown 32in/64out Protools. Over the past 8 years, 85% of the recordings he's done have been on the first ADATs! In the past 2 years 85% of the recordings he's done have been on ADAT XT20s. He says no matter what the format, when he listens to the absolute finished product, he can't tell which format it was recorded on. "Regardless of the format, I'm going to make it sound good!" I should note that the console is an Otari Elite+ and minimal, but very selective high-quality outbaord gear.
And that's what I feel too! I had 3 ADATXTs for quite awhile. Then I added a Tascam TSR-8 for 2 years. I loved that thing! Came to find-out that I like how the dbx Type I NR reacts to the recorder with 456 tape more the fact that it is "analog"! It was nice to have around as vocals, electric guitar, and drums sounded great on the thing! BUT, it is only 8-tracks! Yeah, I was successful with syncing it up with the ADATXTs on occasion (after hours of frustation), but most of the time, it just wouldn't work! Most "budget" open-reels don't have a good enough transport running smooth enough to pump the SMPTE off tape so that the BRC can keep the ADATs satisfied and in sync with the open-reel machine.
So, I used my TSR-8 on the rare occasion I didn't need more than 8-tracks. Of course, I finially realized I didn't use it often enough to justify keeping it around!
What I'm trying to emphasize is that for me, I find most all the other gear seems to have a lot larger factor on my end results than anything else (besides experience, which I feel is the greatest factor, all-else being the same)! The monitoring system is probably the #1 when it comes to gear. I mean no matter what comes in, you better be able to hear it, right? I too am guilty of not putting enough into my monitoring right off the get-go nor yet! Mics and preamps in combination is probably #2. A/D conveters (if using a digital muti-track) would be #3. I mean it can only be as good as what goes in, right? I too am guilty of not buying a dedicated 2-ch. A/D yet, like I should! Although my multi-track recorder was chosen with the converters top priority in mind. Compression would be #4 and Console #5. Cable #6 and FX #7.
I'm probably not giving enough credit to the console, cable, and FX, but with all things considered, that's where I'm putting them. I mean everything runs through the console and cable and each one can dramatically change overall "tone" (for the good or bad) and determine the overall clarity, detail. And FX can make or break a song.
Quite frankly, I feel design and component and hardware quality is going to make much more of a difference than track-width! Anyone who has ever used a Fostex G24-S (1"/24-trk.; 0.0415 ipt w/ Dolby S) can confirm that general statement!
If it's a 2"/24-trk., then more than likely, the design and components and hardware quality used are going to be at least noticeably better than the more "budget" open-reel recorders. We know this is not always the case, but I bet we can make a general statment saying that... Assuming we know there are exemptions to that.
But even with that said, to tell you the truth, this whole "analog vs. digital" when it comes to multi-track recorders, I find it a ridiculous joke! Unless it's 2"/24-trk. @ 15ips with Dolby SR, give me 24-bit/24-track with good converters (and being able to upgrade the converters as I have the money) and a decent analog console to mix through, and I'll be happy!
The house engineer at a small, popluar studio in Berkley, CA (which has high-profile acts under their credits) has told me they have a 2"/24-trk. Otari MTR-90II running @ 30ips, 4 (32-trks.) ADAT XT20s, and full-blown 32in/64out Protools. Over the past 8 years, 85% of the recordings he's done have been on the first ADATs! In the past 2 years 85% of the recordings he's done have been on ADAT XT20s. He says no matter what the format, when he listens to the absolute finished product, he can't tell which format it was recorded on. "Regardless of the format, I'm going to make it sound good!" I should note that the console is an Otari Elite+ and minimal, but very selective high-quality outbaord gear.
And that's what I feel too! I had 3 ADATXTs for quite awhile. Then I added a Tascam TSR-8 for 2 years. I loved that thing! Came to find-out that I like how the dbx Type I NR reacts to the recorder with 456 tape more the fact that it is "analog"! It was nice to have around as vocals, electric guitar, and drums sounded great on the thing! BUT, it is only 8-tracks! Yeah, I was successful with syncing it up with the ADATXTs on occasion (after hours of frustation), but most of the time, it just wouldn't work! Most "budget" open-reels don't have a good enough transport running smooth enough to pump the SMPTE off tape so that the BRC can keep the ADATs satisfied and in sync with the open-reel machine.
So, I used my TSR-8 on the rare occasion I didn't need more than 8-tracks. Of course, I finially realized I didn't use it often enough to justify keeping it around!
What I'm trying to emphasize is that for me, I find most all the other gear seems to have a lot larger factor on my end results than anything else (besides experience, which I feel is the greatest factor, all-else being the same)! The monitoring system is probably the #1 when it comes to gear. I mean no matter what comes in, you better be able to hear it, right? I too am guilty of not putting enough into my monitoring right off the get-go nor yet! Mics and preamps in combination is probably #2. A/D conveters (if using a digital muti-track) would be #3. I mean it can only be as good as what goes in, right? I too am guilty of not buying a dedicated 2-ch. A/D yet, like I should! Although my multi-track recorder was chosen with the converters top priority in mind. Compression would be #4 and Console #5. Cable #6 and FX #7.
I'm probably not giving enough credit to the console, cable, and FX, but with all things considered, that's where I'm putting them. I mean everything runs through the console and cable and each one can dramatically change overall "tone" (for the good or bad) and determine the overall clarity, detail. And FX can make or break a song.
kartikbala
New member
Whoa...has a war of words started here?
I guess we all know that 2"/24 track is sonically superior, but scientifically speaking all magnetic formats are "analog" recording systems, since it's all recorded as continuous waveforms and not as 1s and 0s.
PS: What's an RS mixer?
cheers!
I guess we all know that 2"/24 track is sonically superior, but scientifically speaking all magnetic formats are "analog" recording systems, since it's all recorded as continuous waveforms and not as 1s and 0s.
PS: What's an RS mixer?
cheers!
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Hi kartikbala, I beleive it is a Radio Shack. At least in regards to this thread, thats what it would refer to. And BTW, let me also apologize to you for your thread becoming a analog free-for-all. I know better, however, a year ago, no one was even posting here except for the guys who use and like their "less than 2" equipment. To compare, question, answer and listen to things related to those formats. If I wanted to listen to stuff done on a 2", I'll just go out and buy it. But that is NOT what I am interested in. Its the homegrown music I care about, and the recordings musicians have made for themselves of that music. If you said "listen to my latest tune, recorded at such and such studio, on a 2", I wouldn't bother. Tower records are filled with that stuff. And a lot of it sucks anyway. At least with home recordings, I would'nt think you would have replaced yourself as a musician, with another of better skills.(ala bitchslap). As far as I'm concerned, at least at the top studios, they commit this little sharrade all the time. And HAVE for a long time. Good recordings or not. Thats professional. Ok, I'm done.
fitz
kartikbala
New member
No prob Fitz! Anyway it's always insightful to read the amazing variety of opinions that exist here on these boards.
cheers!
cheers!