Starting from scratch....somewhat

S

sessionselect

New member
Ok i'm pretty new to the whole recording spectrum but i want to dive right in and learn as much as i can. I play the drums for my band now, and help out with the live sound. I want to be able to record fairly good demos, and do live recordings also. I have a budget of about $1500. I'm thinking about going the digital workstation route to record. We already have a Mackie cfx20 mixer, and other effects. We currently use about 12 tracks to record. What would be the best thing to buy, to be able to do not only good demos, but live recordings?

Thanks
 
It's largely a matter of preference. There are some that prefer the simplicity and more stable nature of the standalone workstation, but going the PC route provides much more flexibility. Also, you've already got a good mixer you can use for channel preamps into a multi-input sound card, which would put you one step above most people when they start out.

check out this recent thread for building a good recording PC
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54541

With the computer, an 8 input sound card (like a C-Port or a Delta 1010 ($400 - $600), and some recording software (prices vary wildly) and you're in business.

Do some searches in this site and you'll find a ton of valuable info.
 
But how does a pc do at a live show? Would it go through the mixer? Also is it a hassle to take a pc to a show instead of a digital recorder?
 
Well, if you're planning on doing a lot of live work, maybe you would be better off with a standalone.

You'll probably be using your mixer for the stage, so you'd still need to buy pre's or a different mixer (unless you got a card with built-in pre's like the Aardvark Q-10).

And yes, a computer would kinda suck at a live show. It's not impossible (it's been done), but it'd be a lot more to haul and set up. And, given your budget, it'd be tough to get a good laptop/firewire setup (forget about USB).

I guess it's all about the priorities. You could possibly get a standalone, and then get a less expensive 24 bit audio card with digital inputs. At least then, you could sync the standalone to your PC and bring the tracks into the computer 2 at a time if you still wanted to take advantage of the PC's flexibility. I've never done it that way (but others here have), so I'm not sure what to expect.
 
sessionselect said:
But how does a pc do at a live show? Would it go through the mixer? Also is it a hassle to take a pc to a show instead of a digital recorder?
Click to expand...
You could get a rackmount case for your computer if you all are planning on doing live gigs also.
 
So how many tracks can you record simultaniously on a computer(i know it varies depending on the quality, but my guess it would be no less than P4 1.5 ghz 7200rpm hard drive). and how does this compare to a workstation that you could purchase around 1200-1500 dollars? (very broad question i know)
 
You can record as many tracks simultaneously as your sound card has inputs for. Cool thing about that, is you can usually add more once you've got a nice card.

I'm not sure about the Delta, but with my C-Port, I have 8 inputs, and I can add another 8 for about 300 bones if I need it just by buying another breakout box.

You can work with as many tracks as your PC can handle before it chokes. For example, I've done a few projects with 24 tracks (not "virtual" tracks, real ones) on my crappy little 433mhz PC.

On a box like you're talking about, who knows - I'd be surprised if you had any problems working with 48 tracks at 24 bit, full balls with effects and the whole 9.

...try that with a standalone :cool:
 
So what about effects and things of that sort. Do i use the effects in the computer or the ones i already have? or combine them? And if i have effects in the computer, do i need to have lots of expansion slots or is it in the software? Do i just use normal speakers at my monitors too?
 
Mostly, you'd use the effects in the computer software - no additional expansion slots needed. Most decent recording programs come with enough effects to get you started (reverbs, compression, EQ's, etc...). When you start to get gear lust (or software lust), you can buy separate software "plug-ins" that add effects to the program you already use. There are also shareware plugins that you can download.

There are exceptions when you'll want to use outboard gear instead of (or in addition to) software effects. An example would be mic'ing a guitar amp - you're using the amp's effects (so to speak) and just recording the signal through the mic. Another might be running vocals through a compressor to even it out before it's recorded.

There are some folks that use both, sending individual track outputs from the sound card into a mixer and using their outboard mixer & gear to do their mixing. For me, it's much easier to use the software to do all the mixing internally ...then again, I don't have the gear to pull it off any other way :)
 
so, i've decided to go the computer route. I've already looked around for good prices and everything. BUT, what about the sound card. I want to be able to record as many tracks as possible at the same time. I know that's a bit much to get started with, but i'm one of those kind of people who would rather get the best thing for me right now, rather than settle for something then buy what i really want later. SO my question is, what sound(s) should i look at getting and do i need pre amps for the mics. As i said before i have a Mackie sfx20-4 mixer so should i use those as my preamps. Are sound card preamps "good enough"?

Thanks in advance
 
I'm not the complete sound card expert, but you can check out the Computer Recording and Sound Card forum, and/or do some searches.

I've heard very good things about the Aardvark Q10 (the one with the buit-in pre-amps), but it's a bit pricey.

I'd say the preamps in your Mackie would work very nicely for a card without preamps, but if you're going to record live, won't you be using that mixer for your stage setup? I don't know of a way you could set it up for double-duty because you'd need to preamp your sound card using your Mackie's channel inserts.

My guess, is that you've done some research, here's what you're gonna find.

A) If you can use your mixer solely for recording and don't need it for stage setup, you'll probably want to get a Delta 1010 or a C-Port. The Delta is a little more expensive of the two, but a little higher quality (that's the consensus, anyway). However, the C-Port is easier to add more inputs.

B) If you can't use your mixer exclusively for recording, then get an Aardvark Q-10. I've been told the preamps are very good. I'd stay away from the Pro-Tools DIGI setups - they're designed for Macs and buggy on the PC (somebody's gonna jump all over that one :)

Please understand, these suggestions are my opinion, and I'm sure someone will disagree based on different experiences. If you're looking to record as many channels as possible though, don't skimp too much on the PC. Make sure you've got a fast CPU (at least 1ghz) and at least 256mb of Ram, and a big hard drive (at least 40gigs).
 
I might be wrong here but I looked at the manual on mackie web site.

It lookes like inserts can be used as outs for individual chanels without interuption of signal if you insert the cord half way.

I don't know it might be bypassing the preamp though. Something to look into anyway. If it works you wouldn't need the card with preamps. You would just tap into your inserts and conect them to your card inputs. It will make alot of macaronie though :)


Ok I checked againg... and it says: inserts can be used as chanel direct outputs, post-Trim, post-LowCut (I think it means preamp included) and pre-EQ (meaning EQ is out which is good)

cheers
 
That'd be the ticket if it works. I tried it with my Yamaha, but it didn't work so well - if I breathed on the cord wrong, it either cut out the insert signal or cut out the channel from the output bus. If they're suggesting it on the Mackie site, though, it'd probably work, at least until you could get another mixer.
 
thanks for the great advice guys......i really apreciate it. I think i'm gonna go ahead and take a look at the c-port. from what i've seen so far it looks like the best deal i could get. i'm gonna go ahead and build a computer from scratch and get a rackmount for it. I think i'm gonna get:

athlon xp 1800 processor
80 gb 7200 rpm
256 ddram
decent cd burner
and the c-port

if you know of any conflicts or better buys please let me know.

p.s. does anyone know anything about the AKG drum mic package with the

D112
C418 X3
C419

i was also thinking about getting this package. if there is a thread with it or you know anything good/bad is it worth it...please let me know

thanks a lot
 
whats the deal with this fluid bearing hard drive? Is it just a lot faster or something? Does it cost more? Does someone have a link that i could check one out?
 
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