Starting an Analog Studio: MSR-16 an ok place to start

B

Brother Rob

New member
New to the Forum. Looking forward to learning from you all and also hopefully contributing to the Forum in return.

I've got a line on some really good analog recording equipment. I've been planning on setting up a studio with both analog and digital capabilities. I think I'm going to take a shot at this gear.

I suspect this will be a little like my first guitar build. It certainly would have been easier and arguably less expensive to buy a guitar. I know it would have been less risky - I could easily have wound up with a pile of parts. And it took me a very long time to get the guts to proceed. But I loved doing it.

Some people have cautioned me that a 1/2" 16 Track is more bother than it is worth. However, my price is pretty low for a pretty large amount of stuff. Up to now I'd been planning on getting a Tascam 388.

Even though I am in the "High Tech" industry, I actually know virtually nothing about modern Recording SW. Frankly I'd rather unplug for my hobbies. I find a certain "romance" in the spinning reels. Sort of like travel by train. I am a serious amateur photographer and it took me a VERY long time to give up chemicals and the dark room. If I owned a boat, it would be a sailboat. I like to touch things and see the math and other concepts in my mind being represented in a physical manner rather than hidden and digesting through the electronic bowels of a computer.

This will be a labor of love. I'll take my time tinkering and learning. The list of gear is long and the price really is right. I know I'll be spending $ on tape and other "hidden" expenses. That is part of the fun for me. "Investment Payback" isn't a term that applies here.

My plan is to get this gear - With this one purchase, I'll have the R2R, several DAT units, a 16 channel mixer, and a few other goodies (Digital Reverb, effects, monitors...)

That'll be Step One and keep me busy for a while.

As my skill level improves on that set-up, I imagine I'll start getting some more specific gear.

When I get to the point where I am getting some decent results with this set-up, I'll get the Pro Tools set-up for final mix down and other fun.

Probably a little backwards from how most people would suggest. It surely makes more sense to start with a Digital Studio and then move to R2R if I'm still passionate about it. However I have this opportunity for a quick entry.

Advice, words of warning/encouragement, ridicule are all welcome.
 
Hey...if the deck and other gear is decent....it's a good place to start. :)

I think you should consider not just where you are starting, but where you are planning to go with this, and then make your purchases with that in mind.
 
MSR16 machines are great pieces of gear, the only caution is what condition is it in as the price to fix can be a lot more than you paid for it. Having said that, there are a lot of machines that sat in home studios not doing very much work out there.

Alan.
 
miroslav said:
Hey...if the deck and other gear is decent....it's a good place to start. :)

I think you should consider not just where you are starting, but where you are planning to go with this, and then make your purchases with that in mind.
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It is funny how cognitive dissonance works. I read your reply and automatically thought "Yes, confirmation that this is a good idea!"

Sometimes you reach a conclusion and then look for data points to support it.
 
I'm always wary of the purchase that has to be made quickly, and the fact that you have little or no experience of the gear makes it all the more risky.
Best to research the best options for you and then go looking for the appropriate gear with that under your belt.

These days the vast majority of audio people, from amateur to pro and everything in between, use digital recorders. Do you have a good grasp of what gear is available today and its capabilities?
 
Well.

I did it. Bought the entire lot of stuff. Everything looks pretty good. Still need to check it all out.

All I know now is how little I know. God I'm so ignorant, I don't even know the proper order of everything. Nowhere to go but up!

I'll post more later.

Whee!!!
 
Got everything home.

I sort of underestimated how much gear this was, but luckily my Jeep (4 Door Wrangler Unlimited) was up to the task. On the hottest most humid day of the year, I stopped at the Bank for cash, trekked to Cousin’s place and picked up my new studio. Everything fit nicely into the Jeep, with the MSR-16 strapped safely into the passenger seat.

I was most concerned about the heads on the MSR-16. As I'm sure you guys know, if the recording head was worn or gapped, it would be a bust. Luckily the unit shows virtually zero wear.

The only real “problem” is some idiot got lazy with their screwdriver and cross-threaded and head-stripped a bunch of screws when mounting things in the rack. How freaking stupid do you have to be to eff up a screw? Just take a couple of extra seconds to seat a screw properly and use a decent screwdriver. Five extra seconds and a buck for a fresh screwdriver bit to save damage to a several hundred dollar component.

There is some minor scraping and bending on several components on the “wings” that mount to the racks. The mixer is clean, but 4 of the 200+ knobs are missing their little colored “Top Hats”. The Mixer and Recorder power up and all lights and indicators check out just fine. Mild panic when the Recorder wouldn’t power up the first time I hit the ON Switch, but it was because I didn’t plug it in correctly.

Doh!

Clearly the moment of truth will be to run tape thru this baby and ensure all 16 Tracks are functioning. It will be a while before I get everything sorted out and in place to do a full test & alignment/calibration..

All in all it has been a great experience so far. It is really going to take some time and effort on my part to learn to use this stuff.

Maybe I'll start a Blog.
 
that's not a bad set up, but a lot to deal with for a newb.
i might have suggested something like a cassette four or 8 track to start.
Or just garageband on a a pad or laptop.
i would do a ton of reading, including the manual that came with the deck, and considering hiring someone to spend a couple of days with you setting everything up including teaching you deck maintence and possibly making up cables.
you havent said what you want to record with this setup. Yourself? What kind of productions are are you planning?
Do you need 16 tracks?
 
zorf said:
that's not a bad set up, but a lot to deal with for a newb.
i might have suggested something like a cassette four or 8 track to start.
Or just garageband on a a pad or laptop.
i would do a ton of reading, including the manual that came with the deck, and considering hiring someone to spend a couple of days with you setting everything up including teaching you deck maintence and possibly making up cables.
you havent said what you want to record with this setup. Yourself? What kind of productions are are you planning?
Do you need 16 tracks?
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Great advice.

There is no way I need 16 Tracks. I was originally looking for an 8 Track set-up, perhaps a Tascam 388. However this deal sort of fell into my lap. As I mentioned earlier, I really didn't want to start with a Digital Studio. I know Garage Band and Pro Tools are likely in my future, I just wanted to start with the Analog set-up. I think this will help fuel my passion and keep me interested. I had my heart set on R2R, and I would have been a little disappointed if I'd settled for a cassette or iPad set-up. I'm really sort of excited to have a 1/2" set-up. What can I say, I know this isn't a fashion statement, but I like how it looks.

I am voraciously consuming every bit of material I can get my hands on - including taking advantage of the reams of information available on this Forum. I've got most of the Manuals, but still need to locate one for the Mixer.

The guy who sent this deal my way has another friend with much recording experience, including analog. He is willing to come by and help me with the more detailed check-up/set-up and share some insights. I want to get through some of the basics and learn standard terminology before he comes by so I don't waste his time with concepts that I can get elsewhere. Right now I don't even know enough to ask good questions. I'm also considering taking a class.

From there it'll be trial and error.

I've already had some folks express interest in sessions. When I get to a point of reasonable results (wouldn't be surprised if this takes a year), I'll start sessions with some small local bands. Perhaps giving away my time but charging for direct expenses like tape cost. Yeah, I'll also produce my own work too. I know 16 Tracks is likely overkill and probably a "crutch" since you can learn so much from limitations like how to completely leverage 4 Tracks. And the DAT decks offer an interesting whole new set of learning opportunities.
 
I hope this ends as an inspiring success story because I think you've jumped the gun a little in your impatient enthusiasm. Having said that, as a word of encouragement, I've done that a few times too and it worked out really well. I damn well made sure it worked out well, you get me ?
 
grimtraveller said:
I hope this ends as an inspiring success story because I think you've jumped the gun a little in your impatient enthusiasm. Having said that, as a word of encouragement, I've done that a few times too and it worked out really well. I damn well made sure it worked out well, you get me ?
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Oh, I get you.

Loud & Clear, I get you.

Quick story...

...about 2 years ago I fell in love...

...with a Guitar. She was a Fender Custom Shop beauty called La Cabronita. At around the same time I started chatting with a guy about building guitars. Long story short, I decided to (became obsessed with) put together my own version of a La Cabronita. I ordered a body, neck, pick-ups, etc... and froze in the headlights when I had everything ready to go. What if I wound up with a Thousand Dollars of parts? Well, after tons of advice from a couple of sites and deciding it would be worse to not try rather than to fail miserably, I got to work. Within a few months, I had my own La Cabronita.

She looks, plays, and sounds great. I'll post links to pics when I am no longer a newb around here

So yeah, I am pretty fearless about trying something new, and set my standards high. I have a pretty strong will. This isn't without risk. And a year from now there may be a fine layer of dust on my MSR-16. But I can do this.
 
It's not that difficult. I mean your setup shouldn't take that long to figure out and get up and running. You have a 16 track tape machine with a 16 channel mixer... and you say you probably won't even be using all 16 tracks. So you probably won't be using the mixer's busses and it sounds like you will just be using the mixers preamps and EQ and no outboard pre's or EQ's.

After the first couple of times you use the setup you will pretty much know what cables and other things you will need.

The only real risk you may have as a newbie is that if something is not making sense or going wrong, you probably won't know if it is the machine or user error (9 times out of 10 it's the user but still). Let's just hope your MSR16 fully functioning.

Tape deck maintenance is easy, it's really just cleaning and demagnetizing the tape path. When something goes wrong it's usually not something too serious (with these newer decks) and can fix it yourself.

Forget about buying all the equipment and learning to align and calibrate your deck yourself... Buy a box full of a particular tape formulation (new or used) and try that on your deck, if it doesn't sound good then pay a tech a couple of hundred to set up your machine for that tape and if you stick to using that tape, you will be fine for a while.


To start off, maybe record a simple song that only needs about 4 tracks and no outboard effects other than reverb on one track. This shouldn't be too difficult for you to set up and will teach you a lot about the signal flow of the mixer and you won't have that huge overwhelming mess of cables that you do with a typical 16 channel setup.
 
Brother Rob said:
No offense, but I don't click on links without at least some sort of context or explanation of what I'm clicking.
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Yeah...

I have a MSR-16. Have not had a real good chance to use it though. (I don't have a 1/2" alignment tape just yet.) Note that having that done at some point either yourself or by a shop would be a good idea. Also, if you are not aware of sticky shed, you need to read the 'sticky' thread on that. There is a bunch of tape out there that is worthless, and a bunch of worthless a******* on E*** who will gladly sell you worthless tape. If the gear came with tape, check out the dates on the tape, and either buy NOS that you know is from the good years, or new tape, which at the moment is RMGI. (ATR isn't really the right tape for this deck -- and stock I am pretty sure it was designed for 406/456 type tape, so RMGI 911 would be the right choice.)

The manual for teh mixer probably has a "basic" setup. In fact, I started with teh "basic 8 track setup" right out of the Tascam M-520 manual, and pretty much took it from there. It isn't all that complicated when you look at it in terms of Line in, Line out, Tape return, etc,. Just draw out a diagram first.
 
Blue Jinn said:
Yeah...

I have a MSR-16. Have not had a real good chance to use it though. (I don't have a 1/2" alignment tape just yet.) Note that having that done at some point either yourself or by a shop would be a good idea. Also, if you are not aware of sticky shed, you need to read the 'sticky' thread on that. There is a bunch of tape out there that is worthless, and a bunch of worthless a******* on E*** who will gladly sell you worthless tape. If the gear came with tape, check out the dates on the tape, and either buy NOS that you know is from the good years, or new tape, which at the moment is RMGI. (ATR isn't really the right tape for this deck -- and stock I am pretty sure it was designed for 406/456 type tape, so RMGI 911 would be the right choice.)

The manual for teh mixer probably has a "basic" setup. In fact, I started with teh "basic 8 track setup" right out of the Tascam M-520 manual, and pretty much took it from there. It isn't all that complicated when you look at it in terms of Line in, Line out, Tape return, etc,. Just draw out a diagram first.
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I looked at the Shed Thread, but couldn't really figure out how to tell if a current eBay auction is suspicious. There is a current auction of NOS Ampeg 456 that I was thinking about purchasing. I'd heard that the MSR16 likes the 456. Where do you source the RMGI 911? I wouldn't mind just paying for some tape I know is good.

I have a ton of cables. Including two 8 Track RCA "bundles" (not sure of the correct term) and two 8 Track 1/4" "bundles", Each Bundle has 8 sets of different colored wires. Don't know if that is a standard configuration, but it seems to make some sense.

I do have a pro coming over next week to run me through a basic set up.
 
I always tried to use the old emtec (BASF) 911 on my MSR, it was defiantly a better tape in longevity and according to my tech caused a lot less head wear, the old 456 was crap and over a very short time I had shedding and drop out problems with it, most of the stock was from clients brining it in and a few reels that I was given from another studio that stopped using 1/2". All the new 911 stock I bought was great. The RMGI911 is supposed to be the same formulation I believe.

Alan.
 
Brother Rob said:
I looked at the Shed Thread, but couldn't really figure out how to tell if a current eBay auction is suspicious. There is a current auction of NOS Ampeg 456 that I was thinking about purchasing. I'd heard that the MSR16 likes the 456. Where do you source the RMGI 911? I wouldn't mind just paying for some tape I know is good.

I have a ton of cables. Including two 8 Track RCA "bundles" (not sure of the correct term) and two 8 Track 1/4" "bundles", Each Bundle has 8 sets of different colored wires. Don't know if that is a standard configuration, but it seems to make some sense.

I do have a pro coming over next week to run me through a basic set up.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking all Ampex 406 or 456 is going to be crap, with the exception of tape manufactured 1995 or later. If the Ampex logo is in the middle of the box, or the box is all gray, it is bad. The formula was changed sometime in 1994, but the box style slightly before that so Ampex from 1995 on to be safe, and it must be sealed, as you really have no way of telling otherwise. Ampex 499 is OK, but has different bias then 456. Again, you don't know what your deck was setup for, but from the factory, (I am pretty sure) it was calibrated at 250nW/m, which means 456 with about 3dB of headroom.

NOS Quantegy is fine regardless of box style. NOS Ampex you really need to ask the seller the date code which is on a sticker on the side of the box, and is usually in a year+julian date format, like 95035 would be the 35th day of 1995.

You haven't indicated where you are located. Splicit and usrecordingmedia are RMGI sellers in the USA.
 
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