Starting A Studio!

B

Brad_C

New member
Recently I decided to start my own studio due to the prices in recording gear decreases and the fact that it is expensive to record in a studio. So I am offereing cheap recording to people who need it.

I am not new to the recording world but would like to know what you would recommend to start the first studio. Even the brand and name would be great. Things I will be purchasing is the Presonus Firepod, of course Condensor microphones and dynamic microphones and of course my drum mics. I would like to know what kind of mixer you would recommend (I can get Behringer and Phonic easily), Studio Moniters (M-audio, Phonic and Behringer) and also any other accesories I would need to get started. I already have my nice sound card and I am going to be using a PC with Windows XP professional.

Thank You

Brad.
 
Brad,

I just got a Firepod recently - really nice! I'm sure you'll be happy with it. Question - what do you think you'll need a mixer for? The Firepod will give you simultaneous eight in's, plus S/PDIF digital in as well. I'm expecting that I won't be using my Yamaha mixer much in the near future.

Not sure what kind of system your buying/building, but I'd aim for at least a 2 Ghz processor and at least 512 megs of ram (especially for the Firepod). As for monitors, you could do a search here for Yorkville and the other brands you mentioned. I don't remember the Yorkville model (I'm thinking YSM1), but they get quite a bit of good press around here. I'm been using Tannoy Reveals (passive) for the last couple years, and have been really pleased with them.

What's your nice soundcard?
 
We will be using the mixer for other things that the firepod won't allow you to do. I have one questions what should I get a Powered Mixer or a Analog mixer? What is the difference?
 
What kind of set-up should of use? Also can someone make a nice list of gear I should get in a certain order as needed.
 
Hi Brad.

Wow. That a little like saying "Hey- I'm about to start building a car. Can anyone tell me what tools and supplies I'll need?"

Its not that the question can't be answered, its just that its a HUGE answer and everyone's needs are different. You're going to get frustrated fast unless we can narrow down the questons a little.

1) What do you have already? Computer? What soundcard?
2) What kind of music are you planning on recording? How many instruments? Real drums? Recording the whole band live?
3) How much recording experience do you have already- and with what equipment?

That should get the converstation started.

To answer your last question, however, here's a list of what I have in my studio.

Computer & Intefaces:
Powerbook g4 1.25G w/ 1.25G ram
Digi 002
Alesis AI-3 8 channel convertor
TC Electronic Finalizer Plus (S/PDIF I/O and master clock)
This gives me a total of 18 channels in and out.

Mixers and Preamps:
Soundtracs Solo MIDI 16x8x2 (16 great preamps, 32 inputs, 6 effects sends, 4 stereo returns, 8 busses, 4 band EQs w/ 2 sweepable mids, great sound, many output and monitoring option- it rocks.)
FMR Audio RNP (2 more pres for a total of 18 high quality pres)
ART Dual MP (great bass DI and OK pre for some things)
M-Audio Duo (2 more pres for variety)

(I also have an ADAT XT-20 for 8 channel back-up recording during live gigs. (I record the 8 busses of a live mix))

Outboard effects:
TC Electronc Finalizer Plus: compression, stereo widening, limiting, multiband EQ,etc. Clean. Can be used for guerilla mastering.
TC Electronic m2000: reverb and multi-effects.
Ensoniq DP/4+: 4 channels of reverb and multi-effects
Zoom 9200: classic reverb
Zoom 9120: Reverb and multi-effects
Alesis Quadraverb: yet more verb and effects
(2) FMR Audio RNC's: fantastic stereo compressors
dbx 160xt: classic mono compressor
dbx 166a: OK stereo or dual mono compressor
(2) Tube EQ's: outboard EQ's. (typically used as bus inserts)

Mics:
Blue Baby Bottle: just bought it.
Groove Tubes 5sm: multipattern
(2) Studio Project C1
(2) MXL 603s
(2) Behringer ECM8000's
(2) Nady SCM900 (crap- looking for a way to mod them)
(4) Shure SM57
Shure SM58
AKG C1000s

I'm set up as a small project studio with mobile and live recording possibilities. I don't have the mics and PA to do live sound, but my board can handle live sound, monitors, and recording if the band has the mics, snakes, and PA.

My studio is one room, sound treated and with all noisey computers and equipment isolated. Its a nice environment for collaborations and spontaneous creation, but its not sonically equipped to be more than a project, demo, or indie recording studio. I've recorded blue grass, jazz, rock, folk, and even done a little movie scoring there.

That's the basics- without talking about how its all hooked up and how to use it.

For some more fun reading, check out this thread: I saw it in the list of simlar threads on this page.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=106450

Take care,
Chris
 
Ok sorry about that.

I already have the computer with a nice M-audio sound card. Now I have lots of recording experience with everything from live recording to studio and next week I am doing an album for a local band. I plan on recording everything that I can from live music to bands in a studio. Of course real drums, but if this goes well I will be buying a set of electric drums (I am a drummer anyways).

Now the gear I was looking at buying to start off was;

1. Mixing Board (Should I get analog or powered. Why?)
2. Presonus Firepod
3. Mics (drums mics, condensor mics, dynamic mics. Any other you suggest)
4. Studio Moniters (also including headphones and what not)

Is there anything that you would recommend for when I start? I am starting this project off very slowly until I make a bit of money off of it to buy more gear.

Thanks

Brad
 
I find it hard to believe you know alot about recording but don't know if you need a powered or unpowered(not analog) mixer. Powered mixers are for live use when you need to pipe everything thru unpowered speakers. If you're piping everything thru already amped speakers then you don't need a powered mixer. But again powered is pretty much only used for live use. I don't personally know anyone using a powered mixer in the studio. Why again do you need a mixer? I don't use a mixer and record all the same style band you do and have never needed a mixer for anything. No offense but you may need to do a bit more research before you go blowing money on a mixer you may not need. Trust me I thought I needed a mixer when I was starting out, and it basically turned out to be a 500 dollar waste of money.
 
Everyone tells me what gear I don't need, but you never tell me why?

IS there someone on this forum with msn messanger who knows what their talking about and can give me simple answers not a trust me. Please leave your msn addy here. It will greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:
You'll probably need a Pro Tools| HD 3 Accel system with an ICON control surface for preamps and mixing.

More seriously, you're going to run into trouble here: you don't know quite enough about what you're doing judging by the questions you are asking. Sorry, but its obvious. No big deal- you've got to start somewhere and at least you're getting started.

Mixers- powered vs. unpowered:
Powered mixers are for live mixing. Generally they are for taking many live inputs and mxing them down to 2 (stereo) or even 1 channels to be pumped out the PA system. They are not generally suitable for studio recording, and sometimes not even for live recording.

Unpowered mixers are SOMETIMES for live mixing, and sometimes for recording. Recording mixers have an output for each input in order to get as many individual tracks to tape as possible. That'a what you are looking for if you are looking for a mixer" individual outs on each channel- and probably insert points on each channel so you can use a compressor or limiter BEFORE that signal goes to your computer.

Why do you need a mixer, though? Most low-budget recording setups record straight to the computer and mix IN THE COMPUTER. You don't need a mixer to mix in the box, as its called. What a good mixer does give you, though, is a lot of decent preamps.

I'd suggest starting with something from Behringer or Mackie. Mackie is better, but costs more- and you are *very* wise to start out spending small and investing more in your business starts making money. ANd you may not need one- I do becuase I bus all my tracks OUT of pro tools and mix on the board. Do you need one? Depends on how you want to set up your studio- that's why no one can tell you what you need.

Mics:
This site's mic forum is full of good mic recommendations and lots of info about what mic is good for what. Take a look at this one and read it- I mean READ IT! This will answer all your questions about what mics you'll need and then YOU'LL be the one answering questions like this one.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=27030

Then take a look at what are the current "standards" in low-budget/high performance mics: MXL 603s and V67g, Studio Projects mics, Behringer ECM8000, and the ol' standby- the Shure SM57. There are others, as well, this is jus the list I am familiar with.

Studio Monitors:
Good call- MUCH better to start with even half-decent monitors than to try mixing on stereo speakers. Again, think cheap because it may be a while before your business earns all that much- this stuff is expensive and I can tell you from experience that no one wants to pay much for studio time. Look at the Alesis Monitor One MkII's for a start:

http://www.alesis.com/products/monitor1_mk2/

In any case, look for powered monitors- saves you the trouble of having to buy an amp for you monitors and makes you a bit more portable.

So far so good?
Take care,
Chris
 
Thanks alot. Yeah I do know the the difference between mixers but its just how i stated my question (I am bad at english sorry). I do know alot about recording cause I have done lots of recording but in studios that were already set-up for me, but the whole you know i need this or this to start is what I am confused about. It will be no problem for me to make money due to the fact that I have been booked a nice bit in the last couple of months.

I am planning on buying what I had above written above;

1. Mixer

either http://www.behringer.com/SL3242FX-PRO/index.cfm?lang=ENG or http://www.behringer.com/SL2442FX-PRO/index.cfm?lang=ENG cause I can get them for fairly cheap and I can use them for more then just recording.

2. Moniters

Something by M-audio cause again the price for these can be cheap for me or maybe even a set by behringer

3. Presonus Firepod

Got to have the firepod. Its a simple as that. (can get it for cheap also)

So if anyone objects to this or think I should go in another direction please tell me.
 
Those are all solid choices. Go for it!

And I'm sorry: part of the assumption that you don't know as much as you should might be coming from your english.

Keep in mind, though, being a recoring ARTIST is totally different from being a recording engineer. The experience you have might not be all that helpful- but some experience is WAY better than none.

Take care,
Chris
 
Thanks alot chris you seem to have a solid outlook on this and I think you may be able to answer all my questions in the near future.
 
You mention Pro tools. Would i definently need this or can i get by with it? I have heard it is over rated anyways. I have alot of software I can use like adobe audition, cubase SE and many others. So explain to me what pro tools really do?

Thank You

Brad

P.S. Sorry about the exssive questions.
 
Brad_C said:
Thanks alot. Yeah I do know the the difference between mixers but its just how i stated my question (I am bad at english sorry). I do know alot about recording cause I have done lots of recording but in studios that were already set-up for me, but the whole you know i need this or this to start is what I am confused about. It will be no problem for me to make money due to the fact that I have been booked a nice bit in the last couple of months.

I am planning on buying what I had above written above;

1. Mixer

either http://www.behringer.com/SL3242FX-PRO/index.cfm?lang=ENG or http://www.behringer.com/SL2442FX-PRO/index.cfm?lang=ENG cause I can get them for fairly cheap and I can use them for more then just recording.

2. Moniters

Something by M-audio cause again the price for these can be cheap for me or maybe even a set by behringer

3. Presonus Firepod

Got to have the firepod. Its a simple as that. (can get it for cheap also)

So if anyone objects to this or think I should go in another direction please tell me.
Click to expand...

Yo BradC,

Regarding the mixer, I would skip the Behringer and go with the best you can afford in the Yamaha MG line. You can see the different mixers here:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/d=tp?q=Yamaha+MG

I have used both Behringer and the Yamaha mixers and find the Yamaha to have a much lower noise floor, and hence the recordings sound much better. I'm still not really sure why you need the mixer - especially with the Firepod. And I'm not sure why you want the 24 or 32 channels - go with something smaller but higher quality. Don't forget 24 channels is rather useless unless you have a high quantity of mics and instruments. I think you'd be much better served in the studio with a small 14 or 16 channel Mackie or Soundcraft.

The M-audio monitors are good - either the BX5s or BX8s. Both are better quality than the Behringers (again, my opinion). I don't think you can wrong with the Firepod.

You will also need to consider what mics you want. Read around the Mic forum and select some that fit the budget and do what you want. For drums on a cheap budget, you could do something like a pair or MXL 603s for overheads, AKG d112 on kick (or something cheaper) and an SM57 on snare. Get another SM57 or Sennheisser e609 and you'll be set for some guitar recordings. You might also want a good large diagraghm condenser for vocals and the like...something like an MXL v67g or Studio Projects C1.

Personally I would skip the mixer for now and get the Presonus, some monitors, a good collection of mics, some headphones and some good recording software. It seems to me that it is more sensible to start with things that you are going to get maximum use out of. Don't forget cabling, mic stands, shockmounts, pop filters add up quickly.

Lastly, you mention you have a good M-audio sound card. You can ditch then when you get the Presonus.

Hope that helps.

Milkman
 
Well the thing about getting that large mixer because alot of the people who want to record with me will be using an accessive amount of mics and I will also need the mics. Thanks for info though.

The best part is that I already have all the software I need as in Cubase SE, Adobe Audition and like dozens more I do not use yet.

Mics I have no problem spending money on cause I know people who will rent them and I also play in a band.

So thanks alot for all the stuff.

P.S. Can someone please explain why i wouldn't need a mixer? Even if I never bought a firepod.
 
Brad_C said:
P.S. Can someone please explain why i wouldn't need a mixer? Even if I never bought a firepod.
Click to expand...

Sure- The Firepod has built in mic preamps- alot of people that record on the computer really only use thier mixers for the preamps (me for instance)- however, if you really intent to use 24 mics at a time, you could use the mixer, use the sub groups and route a few (or a lot) of mics into each individual channel at a time. Your number of separate recorded simultaneous tracks will be determined by your soundcards number of inputs- the fire pod has 8 inputs so regaurdless of how many mics you use, you will still only get 8 discrete simultaneous recorded tracks.

Some people mix there recorded tracks inside the computer (me for instance again)- while others prefer to route the recorded tracks back out of the computer and mix on the mixer (such as our pro-tools friend above). Either method is acceptable and really a matter of taste and convenience.

THEREFOR: if you only record 8 ttracks at a time you may hook your 8 mics to the mic pres on the Firepod,then mix your recorded track in the box. By this method you would have no use for the external mixer.

However, if your soundcard doesnot have built in preamps (such as the M-Audio 1010lt that i use) you would need external mic preamps (which is why i have a mixer).

Shit- I hope that made some sense.
 
made perfect sense. Ok now to explain what I am doing.

With the mixer I am planing on running the channels through the line out and the mixer (each channel has a seperate line out) into the firepod so I can get a nice mixed sound before hand going into the computer but also in seperate tracks. Does this make sense and sound right.
 
Brad_C said:
made perfect sense. Ok now to explain what I am doing.

With the mixer I am planing on running the channels through the line out and the mixer (each channel has a seperate line out) into the firepod so I can get a nice mixed sound before hand going into the computer but also in seperate tracks. Does this make sense and sound right.
Click to expand...

Yes and no and maybe:

Lets say you were recording the whole band at one- you use 8 mics (one for each channel on the Firepod) for instance,
--2 drum overhead
--1 kick drum
--1 snare
--1 guitar
--1 more guitar
--1 bass
--1 vocal

for a total of 8 mics- you could plug each one into the firepod and record each separately. This is how i record my band- (we overdub extra stuff like back up vox etc.)
In this case you'd have zero need for a mixer. There is nothin in the case that you could do with the mixer that you couldnt do with the Firepod and com[puiter.

HOWEVER:
Lets say you want to add 4 more mics on the drum- and STILL record all that other stuff. Here comes the mixer (for tracking). You can hook up all your drum mics to the mixer- then mix the drum sounds to a stereo mix abnd route the stereo mix to your recorder- Beware- by doing this you have less control of the mix after the fact- sinse you only have a stereo drum mix recorded as oppsed to all seprate mics.
Even by doing this, you'd really only need a small mixer.

As an aside, you could just record drums with say 7 mics, and maybe a bass scratch track if you really need more channels for drums- and still skip the mixer all together ( i find 4 is fine for drums)- then record the rest of the band separate.

I personally find that we get a better sounding take if we all play together even if ther is some bleen into the surrounding mics. YMMV
 
Hey Brad,
Don't worry about Pro Tools. Get good with a system you can afford first and then you'll know if/when you'll benefit from getting a Pro Tools rig. It IS over rated, but there are some overwhelming advantages to it in some cases.

Take care,
Chris
 
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