Spirit from Soundcraft or Mackie ONYX

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dkimcohn

New member
Hey Audio peepz :D

I need a mixer, and I was checking these two models.
The Spirit from Soundcraft RW and E... series.
As well as

The Mackie Onyx ones.

Which one do you prefer? What does the onyx have that the spirit doesn't and vice-versa.

Looking to spend no more than 800 dollars. I thought these two models were nice.
I have couple of analog synths, and boxes, mainly korg equipment, and use LIVE 4.
Genre: Electronica.

Thanks for your time :)
 
The Soundcraft uses S/PDIF as opposed to the Mackie's (optional) firewire interface. Thus the Soundcraft sums all tracks into one BEFORE it hits your PC while the Mackie with the (optional) firewire brings all of the tracks in individually. If you are depending on being able to tweak the individual tracks on the PC than the Mackie is the only game in town (given your choices). However, if a PC does not play a role in your setup, I agree that the Soundcraft is most likely the better mixer. Heaven knows I hear only praise for the Ghost.
 
antispatula said:
I've heard that basically, soundcraft beats out most mixers, including mackie.
Click to expand...

I think that's been the general sentiment for years, but I think with the latest Mackie offering, the Onyx, Mackie worked very hard to match or beat Soundcraft's mixers sound. Anyone with experience comparing these mixers?

Thanks,
jawgee
 
I like the pre's and eq on the older soundcraft board I have (spirit sx) better than the Mackie VLZ I used to have. I have a Mackie 800R on the way, so I will be able to compare the new onxy pre's to the soundcraft. Should be intresting!
 
Having used both mixers more times than I would like, I greatly prefer the new Mackie Onyx. If however we were talking about an older Mackie VLZ series, than I would actually prefer the Soundcraft.

The mackie to me has a much more open sound when referring to the Onyx preamps. The new Onyx stuff also does not overload nearly as easily as the older VLZ's and actually ramps itself into overload instead of just hitting it like the old Mackie preamps. Mackie also seems to have addressed the nasty channel crosstalk that was awful on the VLZ and before stuff. Mackie also seems to have seriously improved their EQ. The new Mackie stuff still seems to be very durable as well. I don't like however that you have to spend a lot of extra money for the Firewire card.

The newer Soundcraft (at least the M series) seems to be a decent little mixer though as well. It is very important though to remember that in no way is it an actual Soundcraft. It is a SPIRIT which is completely different technology than the Soundcraft line, thus the extreme price difference. In the last few years it seems as though Soundcraft has actually licensed a very small part of it's tecnology to be used by Spirit, but there are still far more differences than similarities. It's kind of like when people call their TAC consoles AMEK's. Amek distributed TAC stuff, and even helped with some of the basic original designs, but 95% of a TAC is completely different from an AMEK.

Then there is the whole "Ghost" comparison that always seems to get made. The Ghost is an excellent value when compare the different variables like sound quality, durability, features and price. However, the Ghost is a real "niche" console. Many Ghost owners consider the Ghost to be a high end console. However, in general it isn't really even considered a pro level console. What it does do though is give you an excellent set of features for a very low price when comparing it to actual studio consoles. I personally have never loved the Ghost as much as most people. In fact, most people I know that really love their Ghost have never actually used anything better so don't really have anything to compare it to except for cheaper consoles.

In the end though, if I had to buy a new console for $5000 or less that had all of the features of the Ghost, it would be my choice. I like the Soundcraft EQ alot for its warmth and musicality, but I really don't like the Soundcraft preamps that much (unless we are talking older Soundcraft). The Ghost also feels really cheap when I do use it. Like all the knobs may just break off at any given time. But, if you can't do good work on a ghost, it isn't the consoles fault by any means.

In this specific scenario, I would factor in the cost of the Mackie firewire card if that is a necessary option. I personally like the sound of the Onyx mixers better. Its a little cleaner and more neutral sound than the Spirit stuff. It seems to have a little more headroom and be a little quiter as well. If I was buying affordable equipment, I would look for as much neutrality as possible. However, if you are on a tight budget and the Spirit will cost less (especially since I believe that it may be considerably less for an equivalent Mackie Onyx with the same I/O count etc...) than you may be better off to go the route of the Spirit. In the end i don't think that either one would be that much better than the other and the money saved on one might go much further than the small difference in quality between the two. Just make sure that which ever one you choose has all the proper I/O and routing for your needs. If it doesn't, it's probably better to save up and get the right one than get impatient and pull the trigger on something that won't completely satisfy you. Especially since the resale value on either one goes down pretty dramatically once you take it home.

Good luck:)
 
Thank you for your comparison, xstatic. Do you lump in the XDR line of Mackie mixers (VLZ-PRO) with the regular VLZ models as far as preamp & EQ sound? Just curious...

Thanks,
jawgee
 
I love my Onyx. I tested it against the Yamaha ix88 (i think that's the model) supposedly the DM2000 pre's, world renowned. I still have my Onyx. It's great.

Pete
 
Although I've never compared them head to head, I have a Spirit F1 that sounds great and I've gotten lots of compliments
 
Jawgee.... I do lump the XDR or VLZ-Pro into the pre onyx category. There was definately a little improvement with the switch to VLZ-Pro, but the EQ, preamp limits, and crosstalk did not seem to be affected by that "upgrade" by Mackie in the least. The Onyx series however seems to have addressed every complaint I typically had with Mackie.

TheRockDoc.... Based on my experiences with all Spirit consoles, I would attribute all of those compliments to YOUR work, and not to the console. If I had to use a Spirit, I personally would consider it a set back. I guess it is no coincidence that on every live rider I get it is right there in bold letters.... "No SPIRIT consoles...."
 
xstatic said:
I guess it is no coincidence that on every live rider I get it is right there in bold letters.... "No SPIRIT consoles...."
Click to expand...
what's a live rider? and what are you talking about?
 
I have an M series Soundcraft and the Mackie 400F. The preamps in the 400F smoke it. Thats my only comparison since thats all I have. I highly prefer the Onyx pres though. THey are worth the dough, better than the RNP in my opinion, but not quite to the API level. Very clear and open. I'd really like to get my hands on an Onyx board and sum through it, do a mix with it and back into the daw and see how well it works.
 
your in luck..

tubedude said:
I have an M series Soundcraft and the Mackie 400F. The preamps in the 400F smoke it. Thats my only comparison since thats all I have. I highly prefer the Onyx pres though. THey are worth the dough, better than the RNP in my opinion, but not quite to the API level. Very clear and open. I'd really like to get my hands on an Onyx board and sum through it, do a mix with it and back into the daw and see how well it works.
Click to expand...

This months Electronic Musician has an Article on Summing ( real gain or snake oil) . All three systems where calibrated for a fair test.

They sum Bounce in Logic"free", sum mid level to and Onyx out Berhinger DA ( clocked by and RME though)"$1500", and lastly the money package Apogee and summed in a Dangerous two buss"$5000". It all came down to subtle shades of difference in blind calibrated test where half the time the Logic mix won out and
on another track everyone liked the Mackie Onyx. I wont be sold on the summing argument anytime soon. A pro-mixer I now bought the passive summing box Folcrum; and he just happens to have loads of pres Focusrite Reds, UA 2-610, Siverbox Hamptone etc. giving him different flavors of make up gain after summing.
That said I could sit around all day with Voxengos Lampthruster ( pre-amp sim
with harmonic modeling) getting various differences in color that don't make or break the track. I'm not an Ozone 3 fan but has a multiband tube/ tape
harmonic sim where you can dial in warm at specific cross-over points makes it worth it for just that section.
Anyhow, every chain has a tiny bit something...is it worth the trouble to
pipe out 16-24 channels of D/A, expose it one more time to RF (24 cables out) noise and back into a DAW where by you with than dither it ( down to 16bits).
Anyhow, according to Electronic Musicians calibrated blind test it does something but half the time panel liked the Logic results best or couldn't tell on the "dense" mix. One supplier already has an advert by "Professor fatty-tones", buy our Apogee 16 and Dangerous 2 bus for sound that doesn't suck.
hummmhhhhhhhhhhhh?
isn't the pro Mastering Job?; where its gonna be run through
loads of lovely analog EQ and selective compression there .....it'll get a sound
and stereo depth then?
anyhow, let me know how it goes if you do some summing trials.
 
tubedude said:
I have an M series Soundcraft and the Mackie 400F. The preamps in the 400F smoke it. Thats my only comparison since thats all I have. I highly prefer the Onyx pres though. THey are worth the dough, better than the RNP in my opinion, but not quite to the API level. Very clear and open. I'd really like to get my hands on an Onyx board and sum through it, do a mix with it and back into the daw and see how well it works.
Click to expand...
As an M series owner myself this is more or less what I expected to hear. And seeing at the original post was referring to the (inferior) E series, I don't even think it's a fair fight. Certainly the price differences over here between an E series and an Onyx of any kind are (percentage wise) huge. :)

However, I remain quite happy with my M12 and my next desk will probably be from the Toft ATB-series when I have a little more space to work in.
 
What's the story on the Peavey USB mixers? I can't imagine the USB being able to get many individual tracks over to a PC....anyone know?

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