SoundCraft Ghost
- Thread starter JimJoe
- Start date
skippy
New member
There are several different versions, but I'm not aware of any material differences between early and late units.
There are two models, and two (common) frame sizes. The models are the Ghost, with mute automation and MIDI machine control capabilities, and the Ghost LE, with is the analog mixer without the automation or MIDI hardware. Frame sizes (imported to the US, anyway) include 24 and 32 channel units. The literature lists a 16-channel frame size as well, but I've never seen any mention of one in actual use, so that may simply be a historical curiosity.
The LE is significantly cheaper. I bought the 24-ch Ghost with the MIDI/mute automation just before Christmas, and I'm already addicted to it: I have my multitrack set up to be controlled by the Ghost's machine control, full SMPTE timecode slaving, and I use the mute automation more than I ever imagined. it can seriously reduce the workload at mixdown time: maybe there's something to this damned digital stuff after all!.
I have also measured all the equivalent input noise figures for the mic pres, channels, summing amps, and output buffers- and I'll be damned if mine doesn't meet or _beat_ ( in some cases, by over 10dB!) them all. The channel path from mic pre or line in, through the EQ, to the direct out (my most useful metric for tracking) is very quiet and clean, and the EQ section really is quite nice. The analog signal path is clean, tidy, and simple. The board is strongly built, fully modular, and has jumper-programmability for several functions (most notably channel metering) that other low-cost consoles would need trace-chopping and soldering to acommodate.
The optional meter bridge impresses naive or impressionable folks, and is somewhat convenient- but is by no means necessary. Cool, yes; necessary, no. So what? I have one. Whee! I *like* being naive...
This is not an entry-level board. But it may be the absolute best bang for the buck there is for a complex, non-entry-level project studio. If you get one, consider ponying up the gold for the full Ghost, even if you think you won't need it. I was pretty skeptical (screw that: I was _completely_ skeptical!), but I've adapted _fast_, and won't go back...
Several other folks here have (or had) them- maybe they'll chime in. Two thumbs up from this satisifed customer, though...
There are two models, and two (common) frame sizes. The models are the Ghost, with mute automation and MIDI machine control capabilities, and the Ghost LE, with is the analog mixer without the automation or MIDI hardware. Frame sizes (imported to the US, anyway) include 24 and 32 channel units. The literature lists a 16-channel frame size as well, but I've never seen any mention of one in actual use, so that may simply be a historical curiosity.
The LE is significantly cheaper. I bought the 24-ch Ghost with the MIDI/mute automation just before Christmas, and I'm already addicted to it: I have my multitrack set up to be controlled by the Ghost's machine control, full SMPTE timecode slaving, and I use the mute automation more than I ever imagined. it can seriously reduce the workload at mixdown time: maybe there's something to this damned digital stuff after all!.
I have also measured all the equivalent input noise figures for the mic pres, channels, summing amps, and output buffers- and I'll be damned if mine doesn't meet or _beat_ ( in some cases, by over 10dB!) them all. The channel path from mic pre or line in, through the EQ, to the direct out (my most useful metric for tracking) is very quiet and clean, and the EQ section really is quite nice. The analog signal path is clean, tidy, and simple. The board is strongly built, fully modular, and has jumper-programmability for several functions (most notably channel metering) that other low-cost consoles would need trace-chopping and soldering to acommodate.
The optional meter bridge impresses naive or impressionable folks, and is somewhat convenient- but is by no means necessary. Cool, yes; necessary, no. So what? I have one. Whee! I *like* being naive...
This is not an entry-level board. But it may be the absolute best bang for the buck there is for a complex, non-entry-level project studio. If you get one, consider ponying up the gold for the full Ghost, even if you think you won't need it. I was pretty skeptical (screw that: I was _completely_ skeptical!), but I've adapted _fast_, and won't go back...
Several other folks here have (or had) them- maybe they'll chime in. Two thumbs up from this satisifed customer, though...
Skippy:
thanks for the reply. What do you record onto with your Ghost? Do you mix/master with the board or use a computer based system at that point? I'm tossing between going directly into the computer with a protools, motu type setup (I currently am using a Layla system with Cakewalk) or using a hard disk stand alone recorder or eliminating the computer (which would mean more outboard gear, etc.) any thoughts?
Thanks Jim
thanks for the reply. What do you record onto with your Ghost? Do you mix/master with the board or use a computer based system at that point? I'm tossing between going directly into the computer with a protools, motu type setup (I currently am using a Layla system with Cakewalk) or using a hard disk stand alone recorder or eliminating the computer (which would mean more outboard gear, etc.) any thoughts?
Thanks Jim
sonusman
Banned
There is NO other under $10k console (new) that can touch the Ghost!!! PERIOD!!!
I didn't know you got one skippy. Congrats! (or maybe I do recall you getting one and I just don't remember?.....LOL...those were hazy days for me back before Christmas...).
I have had the chance to run the same tracks through DDA's and Tridents, and the Ghost had better EQ than either. I didn't hear any difference in the headroom on the Stereo Buss Out. I didn't hear in any way were the Ghost was choking the sound in any way compared to those MUCH more expensive consoles.
The mic pre's blow anything Mackie has to offer off the planet! We are not talking about stale, boring, hyped hi mid mic pre's. We are talking pre's with "character" in the sound that works in real life music. We are talking pre's that are not noisy. We are talking pre's that you can actually clip a tiny bit without worry of really nasty distortion artifacts! (try running a Mackie to clip.....
).
Indeed, when your waurantee is up, and you MIGHT have to have the console fixed, you will REALLY appreciate the fact that the channel strips are module! No other "under $10k" (new) mixer offers that, that I know of at least. The meter bridge, like skippy said, is not a MUST, but it DOES look cool and at least is helpful in eying where a track is on the mixer. I suppose a crafty person (like skippy) could just right on in there and "extend" that jumper for the meter bridge to somewhere that is actually usable, so that you can switch the meter bridge between mic/line in's and Tape Return in's. I almost did that with my old Ghost.
Anyway. I owned one for about 5 years. I had to sell for a number of reasons, but I can tell you it was a sad day when I did. I REALLY liked my Ghost. It served me very well, and I did some great mixing on that console.
Ed
I didn't know you got one skippy. Congrats! (or maybe I do recall you getting one and I just don't remember?.....LOL...those were hazy days for me back before Christmas...).
I have had the chance to run the same tracks through DDA's and Tridents, and the Ghost had better EQ than either. I didn't hear any difference in the headroom on the Stereo Buss Out. I didn't hear in any way were the Ghost was choking the sound in any way compared to those MUCH more expensive consoles.
The mic pre's blow anything Mackie has to offer off the planet! We are not talking about stale, boring, hyped hi mid mic pre's. We are talking pre's with "character" in the sound that works in real life music. We are talking pre's that are not noisy. We are talking pre's that you can actually clip a tiny bit without worry of really nasty distortion artifacts! (try running a Mackie to clip.....
).Indeed, when your waurantee is up, and you MIGHT have to have the console fixed, you will REALLY appreciate the fact that the channel strips are module! No other "under $10k" (new) mixer offers that, that I know of at least. The meter bridge, like skippy said, is not a MUST, but it DOES look cool and at least is helpful in eying where a track is on the mixer. I suppose a crafty person (like skippy) could just right on in there and "extend" that jumper for the meter bridge to somewhere that is actually usable, so that you can switch the meter bridge between mic/line in's and Tape Return in's. I almost did that with my old Ghost.
Anyway. I owned one for about 5 years. I had to sell for a number of reasons, but I can tell you it was a sad day when I did. I REALLY liked my Ghost. It served me very well, and I did some great mixing on that console.
Ed
Speeddemon
New member
sonusman said:
Ed, I know you said new, but Sjoko2 pointed these out to me in the "What is SSL"-thread in Mixing/mastering-forum:
Sjoko2 said:
skippy
New member
I primarily record onto a Fostex D1624 16-track, and do all my mixing in the analog domain on the Ghost. I also have a DAW (Wintel/Cubase), and when I'm using it for a project, I'll usually set it up to output 16 channels of ADAT to the Fostex, which I then just use as a D/A so that I can *still* mix on the Ghost.
I hate, despise, loathe, abhor, and generally dislike mixing with a mouse. (;-)
Speeddemon: sure, there are some screaming deals out there in the used-gear market. I thought for a while about going that route, but several things stopped me. First and foremost, space: the Ghost is still a very compact unit, so it'll fit into a small space like the one I have. I wouldn't mind one damned bit having that Harrison, or maybe the Scorpion- but if I did that, I wouldn't be able to get into the room! Large format consoles are a wonderful thing, but having enough room to put them in can be a bit of a problem. My little studio project got a lot bigger very quickly: funny how that happens, isn't it?
Secondly, used gear is only as good as the broker you get it from. Sjoko knows who's reliable because he's in the biz, and deals with these guys often- and he has the rep to keep them honest. I'm not active in the business, anymore, and I'm not about to trust someone I haven't worked with on an item like that.
And last of all, shipping on a large-format console will eat your lunch. If I was in one of the musical hotbeds, so that I could just drive over with a couple buddies and load it into the bed of my pickup, that'd be a different story. But I'm not- so crating, shipping, and praying that the damned thing doesn't get a forklift blade stuck through it would be the order of the day. And that'd add a sizable fraction to the cost of the unit, and take years off my life worrying about it.
Back when I was trying to do this as a business, that would have made sense: in fact, that's just what I did when I bought the board for the original Scratchpad Studio. The hassles and worry were just a cost of doing business. However, these days, I'm doing this for *fun*- so I ended up with a B-stock, refurbed Ghost shipped direct from Soundcraft, saved myself some reasonable cash over buying at retail, and have what I consider to be the optimal tradeoff of capability, cost, size, and sex appeal. (;-) Other folks will arrive at different results, and more power to them: everyone's tradeoffs are different. Your mileage will certainly vary!
I hate, despise, loathe, abhor, and generally dislike mixing with a mouse. (;-)
Speeddemon: sure, there are some screaming deals out there in the used-gear market. I thought for a while about going that route, but several things stopped me. First and foremost, space: the Ghost is still a very compact unit, so it'll fit into a small space like the one I have. I wouldn't mind one damned bit having that Harrison, or maybe the Scorpion- but if I did that, I wouldn't be able to get into the room! Large format consoles are a wonderful thing, but having enough room to put them in can be a bit of a problem. My little studio project got a lot bigger very quickly: funny how that happens, isn't it?
Secondly, used gear is only as good as the broker you get it from. Sjoko knows who's reliable because he's in the biz, and deals with these guys often- and he has the rep to keep them honest. I'm not active in the business, anymore, and I'm not about to trust someone I haven't worked with on an item like that.
And last of all, shipping on a large-format console will eat your lunch. If I was in one of the musical hotbeds, so that I could just drive over with a couple buddies and load it into the bed of my pickup, that'd be a different story. But I'm not- so crating, shipping, and praying that the damned thing doesn't get a forklift blade stuck through it would be the order of the day. And that'd add a sizable fraction to the cost of the unit, and take years off my life worrying about it.
Back when I was trying to do this as a business, that would have made sense: in fact, that's just what I did when I bought the board for the original Scratchpad Studio. The hassles and worry were just a cost of doing business. However, these days, I'm doing this for *fun*- so I ended up with a B-stock, refurbed Ghost shipped direct from Soundcraft, saved myself some reasonable cash over buying at retail, and have what I consider to be the optimal tradeoff of capability, cost, size, and sex appeal. (;-) Other folks will arrive at different results, and more power to them: everyone's tradeoffs are different. Your mileage will certainly vary!
sonusman
Banned
I have mixed on comparable models on some of those mixers that are listed. It is STILL my opinion that the Ghost holds it's own against them.
Another thing skippy didn't point out, actually a few things:
1 - You have no warrantee with used consoles like them. And, you have no way of knowing just how good of shape they are in. Did they do a temp fix on a Pot that is faultering? Or was it replaced? You won't know until you run it 24/7 for a month or so.
2 - Many of these older consoles used relay switching, which has proved to be a bitch to deal with when those relays go bad... Also, muting on many of these consoles are done so with a "hard switch", which CAN be very noisy. I forget what they type of mute switch the Ghost uses, but it is a "soft switch", which mutes over a period of 10ms, rather than breaking a physical contact. It almost never produces a "click" on the channel when engaging/disengaging the mute. This is significant. I remember on a mix I did on a DDA long ago where we had to do a VERY fast fader move to remove some noise in a "dead" part of a track right after a musical part on that track, because when we tried to mute it, we kept hearing a "click". We started paying very close attention to this problem, and it wound up popping up throughout the rest of the mixes too! I just never had this kind of problem on a Ghost when muting. In addition, the "soft mute" has a very musical application when you are trying to tighten up some stuff together when engagin/disengaging mutes. The 10ms "fade out" and "fade in" can be a nifty little thing to have when compared to a "hard" on/off.
3 - You are going to have a bear of a time finding competent techs to work on many of those consoles. Repair costs (and if the console was WELL used by the prior studio) are going to run you higher. In addition, parts might be a bit harder to find. You might be in an area where there are a lot of techs that can service those consoles and have access to affordable parts, but in the case of the Ghost, it is STILL produced, and Soundcraft makes the parts easily available to repair shops and offer those shops good support for fixing their consoles.
4 - In todays modern studio, the Ghost really does offer built in features that are handy. SMTPE time code reader/generator. MMC. Dynamic mute automation capable (with snapshot automation built in!!!). These are all things that will get USED in a somewhat elaborate setup. The Ghost CAN be fitted with VCA fader automation, but you will have to look around a bit for this package (there is some info on the Soundcraft website. I am not sure if the guy that created the automation package is still producing it or not, but he would probably know who HAS it, and one of them might sell theirs....who knows...).
Those consoles listed are very good consoles indeed. I am not sure if sjoko2 had ever USED a Ghost before in a serious way to compare it fairly. I HAVE against like what I said earlier, consoles of the same model, or comparable to those he listed. While I will in no way try to compare my knowledge, experience, or judgement to sjoko2's (shit, he was mixing when I was born!!!
), I am no slouch when it comes to hearing what sounds good and what doesn't. I found myself WANTING the Ghost when I did some mixing on Tridents and DDA's. Those TEC consoles are noisy, and wouldn't mix on one if I had a Ghost available somewhere else to tell you the truth (or maybe the one at the studio I checked out had some problems...hard to say, but this studio has an owner that is a electronic tech, and he generally keeps his gear in tip top shape, so I just suspect that TEC console was just in fact, noisy....).
Anyway. Tough call. I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at many of those consoles. But if I was buying, one of them would REALLY have to be mint for me to purchase it over a Ghost.
Ed
Another thing skippy didn't point out, actually a few things:
1 - You have no warrantee with used consoles like them. And, you have no way of knowing just how good of shape they are in. Did they do a temp fix on a Pot that is faultering? Or was it replaced? You won't know until you run it 24/7 for a month or so.
2 - Many of these older consoles used relay switching, which has proved to be a bitch to deal with when those relays go bad...
Also, muting on many of these consoles are done so with a "hard switch", which CAN be very noisy. I forget what they type of mute switch the Ghost uses, but it is a "soft switch", which mutes over a period of 10ms, rather than breaking a physical contact. It almost never produces a "click" on the channel when engaging/disengaging the mute. This is significant. I remember on a mix I did on a DDA long ago where we had to do a VERY fast fader move to remove some noise in a "dead" part of a track right after a musical part on that track, because when we tried to mute it, we kept hearing a "click". We started paying very close attention to this problem, and it wound up popping up throughout the rest of the mixes too! I just never had this kind of problem on a Ghost when muting. In addition, the "soft mute" has a very musical application when you are trying to tighten up some stuff together when engagin/disengaging mutes. The 10ms "fade out" and "fade in" can be a nifty little thing to have when compared to a "hard" on/off.3 - You are going to have a bear of a time finding competent techs to work on many of those consoles. Repair costs (and if the console was WELL used by the prior studio) are going to run you higher. In addition, parts might be a bit harder to find. You might be in an area where there are a lot of techs that can service those consoles and have access to affordable parts, but in the case of the Ghost, it is STILL produced, and Soundcraft makes the parts easily available to repair shops and offer those shops good support for fixing their consoles.
4 - In todays modern studio, the Ghost really does offer built in features that are handy. SMTPE time code reader/generator. MMC. Dynamic mute automation capable (with snapshot automation built in!!!). These are all things that will get USED in a somewhat elaborate setup. The Ghost CAN be fitted with VCA fader automation, but you will have to look around a bit for this package (there is some info on the Soundcraft website. I am not sure if the guy that created the automation package is still producing it or not, but he would probably know who HAS it, and one of them might sell theirs....who knows...).
Those consoles listed are very good consoles indeed. I am not sure if sjoko2 had ever USED a Ghost before in a serious way to compare it fairly. I HAVE against like what I said earlier, consoles of the same model, or comparable to those he listed. While I will in no way try to compare my knowledge, experience, or judgement to sjoko2's (shit, he was mixing when I was born!!!
), I am no slouch when it comes to hearing what sounds good and what doesn't. I found myself WANTING the Ghost when I did some mixing on Tridents and DDA's. Those TEC consoles are noisy, and wouldn't mix on one if I had a Ghost available somewhere else to tell you the truth (or maybe the one at the studio I checked out had some problems...hard to say, but this studio has an owner that is a electronic tech, and he generally keeps his gear in tip top shape, so I just suspect that TEC console was just in fact, noisy....).Anyway. Tough call. I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at many of those consoles. But if I was buying, one of them would REALLY have to be mint for me to purchase it over a Ghost.
Ed
atomictoyz
New member
Since were on the subject of soundcraft things. Would this ghost like quality be translated into the lesser products?
My dilemma...Yamaha MD8 owner.
I want to move over to an adat, 8 tracks at first, then more maybe 16 tracks max. But I first need to make a transition into a better mixer to use with the MD8 (since its fixed band eq sucks) so I can still do some recording with MD8 until I can afford the Adats. Im your typical single income household with 2 kids and a wife, income under 55 grand before being raped. I played with the Mackie 8 bus at Dipeitro sound a few years ago, plus EMP has them when I went there, they don't do it for me. Ive been looking at the M8, Folio SX and the FX8 and want to know if anyone has any ideas? Ive being try for the last 2 hrs to post it out in the big room, but its getting posted where I can get it just..... out there
Peace,
Dennis
My dilemma...Yamaha MD8 owner.
I want to move over to an adat, 8 tracks at first, then more maybe 16 tracks max. But I first need to make a transition into a better mixer to use with the MD8 (since its fixed band eq sucks) so I can still do some recording with MD8 until I can afford the Adats. Im your typical single income household with 2 kids and a wife, income under 55 grand before being raped. I played with the Mackie 8 bus at Dipeitro sound a few years ago, plus EMP has them when I went there, they don't do it for me. Ive been looking at the M8, Folio SX and the FX8 and want to know if anyone has any ideas? Ive being try for the last 2 hrs to post it out in the big room, but its getting posted where I can get it just..... out there
Peace,
Dennis
VOXVENDOR
New member
There would have been a time, that Mackie joke would have bugged me...
BUT...................
I got rid of my Mackie.... consoles suck!
I mix onscreen with my mouse....Not everyones cup of tea but, I have come to love it...
Oh, and did I mention I have full automation on that mixing screen.. naa naa naa naaaaa na!
BUT...................
I got rid of my Mackie.... consoles suck!
I mix onscreen with my mouse....Not everyones cup of tea but, I have come to love it...
Oh, and did I mention I have full automation on that mixing screen.. naa naa naa naaaaa na!
atomictoyz
New member
Yup...Im a knob guy. I learnt everything on analog consoles and reel to reel 1 inch and 2 inch machines. Now that Im at home doin it, I like the feel of familiararity. I sit 8 to 10 hrs on a IBM RS-6000, Im about moused out when I get home...Twist and shout baby! Give me a knob!
Peace,
Dennis
Peace,
Dennis
atomictoyz
New member
I like how knobs and nipples give me so much more feedback when they are twisted. Playing with nipples or....a mouse? Gee thats a tough one... hmmmmmm
Peace,
Dennis
Peace,
Dennis
Speeddemon
New member
atomictoyz said:
Well, Dennis, from what I gather (I myself have been looking at that Spirit SX as well, a lot of stuff for little money!) the M8 would be your best bet. Ghost pre-amps, good EQ, better built quality.
Anyway, I myself haven't been able to testdrive them in a A/B-session (I only fiddled with some Mackies (1402 VLZ Pro/CR 1604 VLZ) and the Spirit SX. Although I still love the 12 mic pre's, 8 direct outs, 3 auxes, 100mm faders (=SX), the Mackies ARE built better and have more routing options (especially to Control Room). One nasty thing about that SX is, when you plug in the phones, the "Monitor Out" won't work.
BUT, the Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro would cost me here (The Netherlands) $650!!! The Spirit M8 would cost me $600. So:
-cheaper
-swept mid eq's
-2 more mic pre's
-4 auxes with returns (although on RCA)
-100 mm faders.
Then I say: F*CK that little Mackie in each of his 6 mic pre's....
YMMV ofcourse.
Fishmed
Well-known member
I have an OLD MCI board (early 70's), and it sounds GREAT. The only problem, as Ed has pointed out, getting it repaired or worked can cost some $$$. I have been tempted many times to get something more simple to use, but I really love this board, as it has lots of character. As far as automation goes, I can use my PC to clean tracks or do actual automation via Sonar.
The Ghost does look tempting.
The Ghost does look tempting.
atomictoyz
New member
Thanks Speedie..your enthusiasm is noted :0)
Peace,
Dennis
Peace,
Dennis