Soundcloud swells and ducks song

Monkey Allen

Monkey Allen

Fork and spoon operator
I've put quite a few mixes up on soundcloud and have not had this issue. But my most recent song has this crazy thing going on...but pretty much is only evident when listening on my laptop, where the volume of the mix (especially in the first 30 or so seconds) swells at times and at other times ducks. It'll swell for a couple of seconds then duck for a few more.

The issue is not evident in my 5 or 8 inch studio monitors, nor any of my headphones and doesn't sound evident in playback on my phone. But on my laptop...it swells and ducks like an ocean tide. Bizarre.

The swelling and ducking mostly, or pretty much only happens at the start of the song...the first 30 odd seconds...and that's the quietest part of the song with the fewest amount of instruments going on. I don't think the song is overly compressed and the RMS is a very tame -14.5. So it's not slammed at all.

Here's the song, hope this link works:


Can anyone help out with what to do or what's going on, bearing in mind that it's only really happening on my laptop...and none of my other songs have this issue on my laptop.

Thanks
 
I suspect that something is going on with the settings on your computer. I didn't hear anything at all in terms of volume change on my laptop. If it doesn't do it anywhere else, then that leaves the computer settings.
 
Hmmm.. interesting that it doesn't happen while playing back other songs, and that it happens in the same place in the track every time. That would indicate a problem with the file and probably not the computer. Could be that there is frequency masking going on, or something along those lines, that is more evident on your laptop. I can't hear any change in volume from my desktop at work. I would export the song again and see if the problem occurs again. If so, try exporting a version with no effects. If the problem stops after turning off the effects, then you know it's likely something in the mix. I think this is basically a situation that you'll have to start ruling things out one at a time to identify where the issue is being created.
 
Mr. ROUSH said:
Hmmm.. interesting that it doesn't happen while playing back other songs, and that it happens in the same place in the track every time. That would indicate a problem with the file and probably not the computer. Could be that there is frequency masking going on, or something along those lines, that is more evident on your laptop. I can't hear any change in volume from my desktop at work. I would export the song again and see if the problem occurs again. If so, try exporting a version with no effects. If the problem stops after turning off the effects, then you know it's likely something in the mix. I think this is basically a situation that you'll have to start ruling things out one at a time to identify where the issue is being created.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, good point. Maybe it could be the key of this particular song and or the arrangement which is causing something like you said...the frequency masking. I did export the song a couple of times before making the thread here. If its peculiar to the key/ arrangement of this song then that would explain why my laptop treats this one differently from all my other songs. But I'm feeling this is a long shot. I think you're right...it's something in the effects or some kind of X factor with plugins.

I will say that I used Addictive Drums for this song and had a hell of a time mixing them. For some weird reason that I can't figure out something in AD is causing the snare to register 3 or 4 db louder at times...but over to the left of the stereo drum bus...skewing the drum balance. It is not consistent though. On different play-throughs snare hits will spike in different parts of the song...but never consistently in the same spot. Not often. Here and there. In AD, the snare is dead centre...but then there's the OH's and Room where the snare at random times jumps left and louder. There doesn't seem to be rhyme or reason to it. I checked all panning in AD and the snare is only ever centre. So, I can't work it out.

But anyway as for the swelling and ducking of the song, especially at the start, I guess I'll try to turn off fx and see if I can pinpoint what's wrong.
 
One tell-tale sign of any masking going on would be if the swells occur in conjunction with the start of a new element. If the swells occur at any time that only one element is playing, you can probably rule out masking. Interesting issue you're having with AD, too. I'm not very familiar with AD. Is there a setting for random velocities, or some kind of humanize feature? You've probably already done so, but make sure that you didn't fudge the velocities in your DAW by mistake. What DAW are you using? I use FL Studio a lot. I like to customize the velocities on my hi hats. The editor in FL also has controls for panning notes. I'll use that sometimes and forget that I did. I'll go back to the editor thinking I'm editing velocities and accidentally pan the notes. Do these anomalies happen at the same spot every pass?
 
Mr. ROUSH said:
One tell-tale sign of any masking going on would be if the swells occur in conjunction with the start of a new element. If the swells occur at any time that only one element is playing, you can probably rule out masking. Interesting issue you're having with AD, too. I'm not very familiar with AD. Is there a setting for random velocities, or some kind of humanize feature? You've probably already done so, but make sure that you didn't fudge the velocities in your DAW by mistake. What DAW are you using? I use FL Studio a lot. I like to customize the velocities on my hi hats. The editor in FL also has controls for panning notes. I'll use that sometimes and forget that I did. I'll go back to the editor thinking I'm editing velocities and accidentally pan the notes. Do these anomalies happen at the same spot every pass?
Click to expand...

I really have to apologise. I think I may be going crazy. I just listened to the offending part (basically the intro) a few times on my laptop...1st time I listened I felt it was really clamping down and then swelling up, then clamping down and really swelling at the start of the singing. Then I listened a second time...and it didn't seem so bad...then a 3rd time, and I was struggling to hear any swell or duck. Might be some sort of psycho acoustic brain trickery going on. Geez, I dunno.

I do note that the hihat sounds annoying and judging at least by some (not all) visual details of the soundcloud waveform, some of the hihat hits are rising well above the average level. Maybe if I go in and address that hihat, I'll smooth things out more.

Mixing is very, very challenging.

Geez

By the way, I'm using Studio One. And have had a nightmare time with Addictive Drums, as I said...altering velocities etc...hacking a trail through such a mess, without leaving any breadcrumbs to find my way back. Initially, the midi have every single snare hit at 100% velocity. It was insane. So I did go in and take them down to variables of around 77/78%. This of course meant that, I suppose anyway, the hihats and OH midi was maybe too loud...as I'd just lowered the snare. Back to the drawing board. This song was a fun song to write and record...but I've had an absolute gutful of it by now. Seems to have lost any feeling it may have originally had.

EDIT: I just went and listened to the intro again on my laptop before I go back to my DAW and I am going mad because it CLAMPED down right from the start, then swelled up, then clamped down. I listened a second time...it clamped down and swelled up...but in different places in the intro!! Oh my. Then a 3rd time...and it sounded ok. What a nightmare of troubleshootery.

I think I need a priest.
 
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Eh, no need to aplogize! Music production is a blessing and a curse. But, mostly a blessing! Sounds like your ears might need a break. I know what you mean about having your fill. I was doing the math just yesterday. The best songs in the world get repetitive if you listen to them enough times. Then, it gets the skip! At 120 bpm, if you put an hour into an 8 bar loop, you hear it 480 times. lol I toss so many beats just from getting tired of hearing it after awhile. lol

Anyway. Maybe your mind is just playing tricks. If you can't hear it on anything else, I wouldn't worry too much. But, if you decide to tackle it, my next suggestion would be to start from the master and work backwards. This may or may not be obvious on those speakers, but is it clamping and swelling the entire mix, or is it just certain elements? AD sounds like a challenge and very much its own animal. You're definitely on the right track altering the velocities to get a reasonable level and a more human feel. It sounds like it might be easier to program your drum samples directly in your DAW, though I have not used Studio One yet. I'm guessing it's probably similar to other DAWs. It's super easy in FL.

Hopefully, you figure it out. But, I wouldn't go too crazy over it if it's not noticeable on any other system. Could just be an impossible anomaly! lol Try it on another laptop. If by chance you can try it on the same model, you could tell a lot. Maybe it's just that! Every mixing issue is a giant can of worms waiting to happen! lol Best of luck, always!
 
Just a quick comment before I read your post...I can confirm that playback on this laptop of mine is DEFINITELY doing this to my other songs. Whatever is happening is only apparent on this laptop. There must have been a recent realtek driver or Windows update or something that has messed with the audio in some way. Naturally, and to make things even weirder, I haven't noticed the issue in youtube etc. Only soundcloud. I just assumed it wasn't doing it to my other songs because I've had them up on soundcloud a long while and had never noticed it. But it is doing it now. So...it's Windows...realtek...drivers...HP laptops...this particular laptop...something there. It's not in my mix (however good or bad it is as an audio mix).

So I think I'm going to just point the finger at this laptop. My phone, my 5 inch speakers, my 8 inch speakers and all my many headphones, including 600's, 880's, 7506's, etc etc do NOT exhibit this issue.

It caught me by surprise and made me second guess all over the place. But in the end...it's this laptop...Windows...realtek etc.

Geez, what a mess!

Thanks for all your help. (y) :-)
 
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