sound perception

"Your stuff was/is not the same quality from square-one as the commercial music you are comparing it to"
Really? That's a big assumption to make, I've not mentioned where the track was recorded only that I'm trying to mix in a crap room.
That's another reality.
 
Yup...it's an assumption that is easy to make based on what you were describing.

If you're saying the recorded tracks are top-notch...then WTF are trying to mix them in a crap room for...???
Put up the raw tracks....then we can all hear the same reality. ;)
 
I'll stick a few bars up tomorrow. I'm mixing at home hence the rubbish acoustics.
I don't normally do the mixes and I'm not that great at it either but I'm trying to improve what I can achieve in a limited situation.
There's many reasons why people mix in a shite room not least that I don't want to spend half me life in a studio if I can do it at home.
 
You're not the only person on the planet having home studio acoustic issues. First serious home studio I set up had good gear, but the room was small and it sounded like shit without any treatment.

I was just saying that it's hard to dance around that if you're looking for better mixes and if you are comparing them to commercial stuf that was done in great rooms with great gear from start to finish.

I'm not saying your music sucks or that you can't record good tracks....just sayin' that we home studio guys are working against a stacked deck when we pull up a well done commercial CD and wonder how to get that quality.
It is possible in the home studio environment...but do yourself a big favor and toss up some trapping in there, it will go a long way to helping you get what you want...otherwise you will be chasing your own tail. :)
It's not that costly these days to do at least minimal/basic treatment even in the crappiest rooms.
 
The low end of the kick isn't very low. If you put the focus of the low end down an octave, it might help. Also, it seems the slap of the kick is in the same range as a lot of the articulation of the bass. Maybe if you bring that down into the 800hz range (or back off on the 3-5k on the bass), it will get the slapping of the bass notes away from the slapping of the kick.
 
Could be because it was professionally mixed and mastered and the low end was properly balanced to begin with....all in a pro studio that was acoustically treated.

IOW....your mix in your room is lying to you from the start no matter what you put on the master bus...so your are comparing apples to oranges.
I don't buy this explanation though.
When you shift around in any imperfect room you will be shifting the response regardless of the source.
Now if OP is saying multiple mixes of his do this- but no 'pro' ref tracks do- well that is about equally absurd.

The mix posted, and in the stem, almost all the low end is centered around the kick's one note. The mix is nice, the low balance isn't really out of bounds- I might want to explore the options around reducing that one hump' from the kick it may be a bit hot in my onion, and also see what variation in the low end might be available- that is a 'taste thing... this isn't..
It's entirely possible that a song like that ('one note lows') can coincide with the peak and dips in a room, where position has a huge effect.
Take a ref or another song where the bass's various notes are more prominent- moving about in the room' would more likely shift 'the problem' to one of different notes appearing to be out of whack.
 
I don't buy this explanation though.
When you shift around in any imperfect room you will be shifting the response regardless of the source.
Now if OP is saying multiple mixes of his do this- but no 'pro' ref tracks do- well that is about equally absurd.

Well...you don't have to...:)...but I've heard many a shit mix sound like total shit in a shit environment...and yet somehow, you put on some quality commercial music, and it seems to always rise above the listening environment.
I'm not saying the environment has no effect....just that that commercial stuff transcends it a lot more than home rec stuff in many a case...and one of the areas that is often the most problematic, is the low end, which is exactly what the OP is complaining about.

I say that also from personal experience in trying to get that big, fat low end of commercial music that just seems to fill the room in a nice punchy way, yet never boomy or muddy or interfearing with anything else.
It's taken a lot of different approaches (I think the stuff I'm currently working on is finally getting there).
So I don't find it odd at all that there is a big audio sound quality difference between the two in the same crappy room.
 
Jay, that 3-5k reduction the bass has helped.
Mixsit, what frequency on the bass drum do you feel needs reducing? Thanks.

Just for reference I'm looking for an indie type of sound to this track, more T'ing T'ings than Rita Ora :)
 
I'm not hearing the tracks on my studio system, just on my computer, so I don't hear the full spectrum...but one thing that might help with the bass and its "singularity" is for you to apply some sort of harmonic generator....kinda what Jay and mixit are getting at.

I found a great plug from Waves (I'm sure there are others out there that can do similar)...the Renaissance Bass plug.
It creates harmonics for the bass, so that you can get this huge bass sound without having to up the level or do too much EQ on it.

Renaissance Bass - Bass Enhacement Plugin | Waves

It's that same effect you get when you listen to commercial music on small dinky speakers, and you know the speakers themselves have NO possibility reproducing that kind of low end, yet it's still there.
What causes that are harmonics that make you hear the low end even though the speaker is not capable of reproducing it.

Anyway....the Renaissance Bass has become one of my favorite plugs for bass. What's great is the simplicity. Like I said, you can find other ways of doing it, with other plugs...but this one has three sliders, and you can quickly/easily dial in just the right harmonics for your bass relative to the mix.
I bet it works well on kick drum too...though I have not tried it.
 
Well...you don't have to...:)...but I've heard many a shit mix sound like total shit in a shit environment...and yet somehow, you put on some quality commercial music, and it seems to always rise above the listening environment.
I'm not saying the environment has no effect....just that that commercial stuff transcends it a lot more than home rec stuff in many a case...and one of the areas that is often the most problematic, is the low end, which is exactly what the OP is complaining about.

I say that also from personal experience in trying to get that big, fat low end of commercial music that just seems to fill the room in a nice punchy way, yet never boomy or muddy or interfearing with anything else.
It's taken a lot of different approaches (I think the stuff I'm currently working on is finally getting there).
So I don't find it odd at all that there is a big audio sound quality difference between the two in the same crappy room.
For Shure, exactly. But that is not quite what I'm focusing on. A good production has less flaws', likely better tuned' to translate better- and that means less nasties popping up in all the various and bizarre listening situations.
But one ought to be able to pin down (learn by careful comparison) some constants', that being freq shifts that apply (almost) w/o regard to a sources quality. 'Almost' because the ref has to excite or land on or in the room's adoration points. But again, a well balanced mix is less likely to get whacked' than one that is peaky', or 'one note perhaps.

Mixsit, what frequency on the bass drum do you feel needs reducing? Thanks.
IDK, I'm not going to chase it down. It's that prominent freq of the kick. It seems to me compared to commercial refs I use, they are lighter in general.
However when it's reduced.. In my experience what happens in fleshing out the low end in a mix is you get to a 'blend as this best or initial try based on the path and what you heard getting there. And when I begin the questioning process- brought on by realizing the mix in a different light, you begin to chip away at source(s) 'problem in question' :) One of the first things that can happen is the 'warmth balance you had- can be lost.
That- can lead to.. Are other instruments in the mix thinned out perhaps too much, or too high?
When you bring up the low end in these others, is it a better compromise? Some where in between? Or, perhaps you are led into the same conclusion, that what you had is, was the best compromise?

Man, let me say this stuff for me.. is really tough! I have to go round and round to get to wherever I get to. :D So, no 'high horse' here.
 
To the OP:

Oh...if you decided to get the plug...get if from Audio Deluxe, only $65 when you join their subs (no cost to join)....at Waves it's $75.

And speaking of Waves....
They are ending their Native plug pricing on Feb 28th...and from now on there will be just a single price for both Native and Soundgrid. Not sure what that really means, though it might just mean that the Soundgrid versions will be a little cheaper...though Waves hasn't clarified what it really means. I don't think they are ending support for Native versions...that would be dumb on their part...and I don't think prices are going to go up on Native.
They just say they are "merging" the pricing on Native and Soundgrid.
That said....there are some nice sales on a bunch of their plugs right now, and Audio Deluxe beats the Waves sales by an additional discount.

Search | AudioDeluxe
 
mixsit, the bass drum has a lot of the room and OH mics, I could turn these down but I want a quite roomy sound using the room mics rather than reverb.
I'll try blending it with a bit more subtlety, thanks.
 
mixsit, the bass drum has a lot of the room and OH mics, I could turn these down but I want a quite roomy sound using the room mics rather than reverb.
I'll try blending it with a bit more subtlety, thanks.

You could eq it as an option to turning it down..
 
I could eq further but I'm not sure of the frequencies.
It sounds pretty full in my room but from what you're saying it's a bit middly?
 
Add some 50hz to the kick before the compression.

You've kind of run into the problem where you made the kick and the bass sound the same. But neither one has much energy in the bottom octaves.
 
To OP...

I know you're not looking to spend money anything at the moment to fix your problem (be it acoustic treament or plug-ins)....but I think you should at least download the demo for the Renaissance Bass and give it a try.
I think it will give you what you are looking for.
Try the Pensado presets as a starting point....there are a couple that rock and need only for you to fine tune to your mix. :)
 
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