Sooooooo tired of fake drum threads.

[DM60]

I don't think this generation is any worse than many that have come before. It is just now that the technology has changed, the easy way is much easier. The young have always looked for fast and easy. It is what they do.

 

[miroslav]

Look at the guy in the Recording forum talking about his dual mic/dual pass problem.
He just came back with some convoluted Band-Aid solution he got off of GS...and his comment was that recording over would probably be best, but the Band-Aid was quicker/easier.

I dunno...WTF is it with quick-n-easy?
Is everyone on some actual deadline...or is it more about ADD and being able to stay on any one thing for too long?

I'll admit that I work slowly, and will try out 10 different things if I'm not happy with a result during tracking...but I don't get the reluctance for some to DO IT OVER if it's not right...?
Everyone's looking for a plugin fix...a Band-Aid.

I also think that's why guitar reamping is such a hot item...everyone is to afraid or not wishing to be bothered with having to actual re-record a track. "Just give me the basic notes, and then I'll reamp it later and try to make it sound right."

 

[Greg_L]

Look at the guy in the Recording forum talking about his dual mic/dual pass problem.
He just came back with some convoluted Band-Aid solution he got off of GS...and his comment was that recording over would probably be best, but the Band-Aid was quicker/easier.

I dunno...WTF is it with quick-n-easy?
Is everyone on some actual deadline...or is it more about ADD and being able to stay on any one thing for too long?

I'll admit that I work slowly, and will try out 10 different things if I'm not happy with a result during tracking...but I don't get the reluctance for some to DO IT OVER if it's not right...?
Everyone's looking for a plugin fix...a Band-Aid.

I also think that's why guitar reamping is such a hot item...everyone is to afraid or not wishing to be bothered with having to actual re-record a track. "Just give me the basic notes, and then I'll reamp it later and try to make it sound right."

100% Agreed. That guy is a perfect example of ITB fixing clownfuckery. But, I guess this is sort of in his defense, he did have to comp his parts together from about 500 takes, so re-tracking would probably be a nightmare for someone already in way over their head. The "solution" to his problem sounds like a clusterfuck.

 

[famous beagle]

It takes little to no skill or intelligence to fire up a guitar sim and drum program and release canned garbage to the world.

While there are certainly times this is true, it's not always the case. I had to record a Robben ford solo for a book I wrote a while back, and I had to do it at night, so an amp sim was my only option. I spent a good three hours dialing in the tone, and, IMHO, I think it shows. For anyone interested, here's the track. I think the tone is fairly close to his original (others may disagree, of course), which was no simple task considering he's Robben and he used a Dumble. (Note that I only recorded the guitar here; everything else was recorded and mixed by someone else at a different studio.)

On the other side of the coin, it really doesn't take any more skill or time to fire up an amp and stick a 57 on it, slightly off-axis a few inches away. Granted, if you really want a specific sound for a song, you have to take your time with it. But that's the same with any process you use. There are always quick "presets" for anyone who doesn't want to put the time in. The 57 trick I mentioned is the hardware version of a preset that gets a decent tone most of the time, but it can certainly be improved upon usually with more effort.

 

[RFR]

The real trick with Robben or any other good known guitar player is getting your hands dialed in. That's the tough one.

As to the itb trickery, that's one reason I love tape. If the part isn't right, do it again. Players dont always like that, but it does improve ones skills. As a producer, ive been mean in the past.
Guitarist: Can't we just punch ?
Me: Uh, yeah we could, but no.
Do it again. I want it to flow.

 

[famous beagle]

The real trick with Robben or any other good known guitar player is getting your hands dialed in. That's the tough one.

As to the itb trickery, that's one reason I love tape. If the part isn't right, do it again. Players dont always like that, but it does improve ones skills.

Of course, and I worked my ass off learning the tune as well. But even still, Robben's tone was nothing that a preset was going to do.

As for the second part, that is so true. People don't realize how they're selling themselves short by editing everything they record instead of practicing more and/or doing more takes until it's right from the beginning.

 

[Farview]

While I agree with most of what RFR said at the top of the page, I do disagree that there never was any money.

I think the same amount of acts will rise to the level that would have made them money 15 years ago. But now, that money is gone.

I made a decent living for 15 of the 20 years I had my studio. But when recording budgets went from $25,000 down to $5,000 (which now had to include mastering, artwork, etc...), there wasn't enough time in a year to do enough projects to earn that kind of money.

If no one buys it, it will become a loss-leader to get people out to shows...which don't pay much either.

 

[Guitargodgt]

I have never used this, but I have a friend that really likes it. It looks interesting.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums-percussion/tune-bot-electronic-drum-tuner?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=CNjlz5_V4cgCFYVqfgodtc0CPw&kwid=productads-plaid^136039602987-sku^H80312000001000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^82795616067

I have one of these and it's pretty fantastic.

 

[Guitargodgt]

Maybe my problem has been that the drummers had worn-ass heads then. I think I have pretty good ears, but I haven't been able to make hide nor hair of the pitch of the thing. It's like information overload---multiple pitches bending up and down and sideways. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it's the toms specifically that I'm talking about.

New heads are a must IMO.

Honestly new strings are as well. Bass players are the worst at this in my experience.

It's so bad/expected I just keep a pack on hand for when they go "I forgot to get new strings" and just bill them for the trouble later.

Considered doing it for drummers as well, but I can feel the butt hurt already.

 

[Guitargodgt]

Anyhow, this was the last thing I did (well recorded, not my band or performance) and twas 100% acoustic drums, no samples. Tracked the band all at once and overdubed one of the guitars and the vocals after (bleed in vocals and wanted to use the Mesa DR on both).

 

[famous beagle]

Anyhow, this was the last thing I did (well recorded, not my band or performance) and twas 100% acoustic drums, no samples. Tracked the band all at once and overdubed one of the guitars and the vocals after (bleed in vocals and wanted to use the Mesa DR on both).

Cool, sounds nice. What's a Mesa DR?

Oh wait ... dual rectifier? I was confused at first because I was thinking you meant you wanted to use it on the guitar and vocals. But now I see you meant you wanted to use the same amp on both guitars. Now it makes sense.

 

[tim chipman]

While there are certainly times this is true, it's not always the case. I had to record a Robben ford solo for a book I wrote a while back, and I had to do it at night, so an amp sim was my only option. I spent a good three hours dialing in the tone, and, IMHO, I think it shows. For anyone interested, here's the track. I think the tone is fairly close to his original (others may disagree, of course), which was no simple task considering he's Robben and he used a Dumble. (Note that I only recorded the guitar here; everything else was recorded and mixed by someone else at a different studio.)

On the other side of the coin, it really doesn't take any more skill or time to fire up an amp and stick a 57 on it, slightly off-axis a few inches away. Granted, if you really want a specific sound for a song, you have to take your time with it. But that's the same with any process you use. There are always quick "presets" for anyone who doesn't want to put the time in. The 57 trick I mentioned is the hardware version of a preset that gets a decent tone most of the time, but it can certainly be improved upon usually with more effort.

Just my opinion. I listened to your guitar work (very, very, nice) If you hadn't already said that it was an amp simulator I would not have known. The guitar tone on that track (again just my opinion) is the best thing there. Just for my curiosity what guitar were you using? I write and record my own songs. On my first two albums I used simulators.......a boss V10 ? and a Line 6 rack mount ($700) Whatever!........ I always used a good compressor in front of the amp sim to give it beef or make it sound more (real?)(Line6 always sounds thin and fizzy to me)But now I do use an AC30 mic'd with various combinations. And for you drummers, yes, I did finally get a good kit, learned how to tune the heads and mic them......but the room is not ideal. However I get the kit sounding to the point where it makes me happy....very happy in fact. The room is behind the furnace 14' x 7' then goes in a little L shape for another 4' to the stair well and that's where the AC30 is tucked in. So not a lot of space.......so I took the room sound completely (well almost) out of the equation with blankets from "Audimute" walls and ceiling. Then it's just tune the heads (maybe through in some moon jells and gaffer's tape) and get your mics up. For anyone here on a budget (or not) check out 12 Gauge Mics for your kit. I've got some really expensive mics that I don't even use on drums anymore.......just two reds and two blues. The latest album "Trixy" just went up on cd baby and my website Tim Chipman - Home . The first one Best Years was all me playing drums on the keyboard...obvious. Then the next was a combination of both. The newest is all live drums.

 

[Atkron205]

I completely agree that this is the way things are now. But there are still those who wish to have something recorded well that is a value to themselves. Fuck becoming the next 'American Idol' or any of that bullshit.

There are still those who do not have the desire or means to invest thousands/nor have the home/space to build a recording studio, that still wish to have something recorded that gives them something to share and/or be proud of. I tend to cater to those type of musicians who only wish to hear themselves as they envisioned.
I enjoy working with them as long as there is something there that inspires me. If not, then I just ignore them...

I am either lucky or stupid enough to have invested a shitload of money into my basement studio so that I can be able to produce something cool. I lost my desire to play in bands and deal with the individual members personal drama years ago. Now I mostly just record other peoples broken dreams (ha!) and hopefully add some inspiration and direction to the recordings that make them feel like they accomplished something. There is a market for that, though I will never come close to paying off the gear that I purchased to do such. I do not expect to. I just enjoy the experience for the most part. And no, I am no hippy/peace freak. I seem to have an addiction for making the most of a project. I have donated countless hours playing on and producing songs for kids just because I want to. Keeps me sane maybe? I am not even sure myself.

I mostly record local bands that I have been friends with or are friends with someone I have known for decades. Sometimes collaborations with people I met via this site in other countries. I will on occasion program a drum track as basic track for a friend/clients song, but I also have the means and decent room to record 'real' drums myself. I do that for more serious projects but sometimes it just isn't needed or worth the time for some. I could play myself a much better drum track live, but for $20 per hour, at 4 am, for a pop tune,...it is much easier to just program a beat. It is really fucking easy if you have drumming experience and are familiar with the drum software.


After my rant/bio here I suppose I should say that I also get really sick of hearing threads about fake drums. Nothing beats a real drummer ever, but nothing makes a mockery of what drums are all about than a completely redundant/repetitive drum track programmed by someone who has no clue as to what playing drums even means. Shitty programmed drums sound like shit when done shittily.

Did I just type all of that? Ugh...

I agree with the part about helping people out. I also agree with the personal problems line. I stopped gigging years ago for the same reason. The reason I built the studio is two fold, for me to have fun and to help the garage band types that want a demo. when I was coming up and still believed I was going to be a rock star, we did not have the money to shell out to a studio to cut a 3 song demo. some people tell me I am a fool because I usually do it for free. well my take is this, I am still learning this craft, I just enjoy doing it. I have a real job and work sometimes 70 hours a week. the studio is my stress free zone. it is my fun time. plus it is really cool to see the look on a teenagers face the when they hear something they recorded for the 1st time. I will never make enough to pay off what I have spent, but then again I know people who have a 40,000 boat they use a few times a year. just my two cents.

 

[Myx62]

I agree with the part about helping people out. I also agree with the personal problems line. I stopped gigging years ago for the same reason. The reason I built the studio is two fold, for me to have fun and to help the garage band types that want a demo. when I was coming up and still believed I was going to be a rock star, we did not have the money to shell out to a studio to cut a 3 song demo. some people tell me I am a fool because I usually do it for free. well my take is this, I am still learning this craft, I just enjoy doing it. I have a real job and work sometimes 70 hours a week. the studio is my stress free zone. it is my fun time. plus it is really cool to see the look on a teenagers face the when they hear something they recorded for the 1st time. I will never make enough to pay off what I have spent, but then again I know people who have a 40,000 boat they use a few times a year. just my two cents.

It almost sounds like I wrote that post. Im a guitarist but have been working on my drumming skills the last two years. I can almost make it through a song without going out of time. Maybe another year lol.

 

[Dicus]

I agree with the part about helping people out. I also agree with the personal problems line. I stopped gigging years ago for the same reason. The reason I built the studio is two fold, for me to have fun and to help the garage band types that want a demo. when I was coming up and still believed I was going to be a rock star, we did not have the money to shell out to a studio to cut a 3 song demo. some people tell me I am a fool because I usually do it for free.

Whoa, the world needs more people like you!

I'm 23 and still believing that I'm going to be a rock star (blissfully naive). And building up a studio from the money I make with teaching the drums and guitar. Hoping and dreaming of being able to record en produce my own tracks in my own studio, that sound professional. But there's still so much to learn...
I can understand why people use electronic or programmed drums, because I know how hard it is to make your drumkit sound nice and tight with one microphone in a nontreated room. If the stuff wouldn't have a place it wouldn't exist. Last week I found out that Devin Townsend used programmed drum for the entire album Ziltoid, now that sounds tight... Obviously I love the groove and feel a 'real' drummer can put into a track. As yet I haven't heard the software that can make it sound like Steve Gadd, but with self-learning software that will be a matter of time...

Nice topic

 

[jimistone]

I am using real drums on my recordings. My best friend is a drummer and his drums stay set up at my studio. He is a fantastic drummer but unfortunatly he has lung cancer and taking chemo. He hasn't felt up to playing drums in a while. Anyway, i'm no drummer but I'm doing drum tracks now. What I do is lay them down one drum at a time. First I do the bass drum with one LDC mic. Then I record the snare with a SM57 and an overhead. Then I record the hats and cymbles, with 2 overheads. Finally, I record the toms with 2 overheads. The results are pretty good IMO. We had already done a lot of experimentation with mic placement and what mics sound best on each specific piece of the kit. Plus, we spent 2 days tuning and dampening them when we first moved them in.
Everything has its benifits and draw backs. The drawback to recording drums this way is takes 5 times longer to record the drum part. The benifit to recording this way is every drum is isolated to its own track... even the overheads are several isolated tracks so, there's no bleedthrough of the entire kit and performace on each and every mic ...and editing is very easy and very transparent.
Not being a drummer, with the skills to lay down a great "all the drums at the same time" performance, It's either do it like this or wait until i can get a drummer over to record.
All that said, I've been pleasantly surprized at how well the results have been.

 

[4tracker]

I don't understand hatred of programmed drums. Some people simply have no other option. They don't know a drummer or they live in apartments. It's a fantastic tool and has been for like 50 years, yet there is so much rage about them here. Hitting a drum doesn't make you cooler, more pure, or any other fake ethos. It sounds better, but the gap is closing fast.

Programmed drums can sound very good now and human if done right. Music progresses and always moves forward, despite the fact that some people want to get stuck in their era and ethos. After humans on computers, robots themselves will be making music, so you better brace for it. There are way more important problems with modern music than drum machines, namely limiters/loudness and brittleness/lack of warmth to the sound.

Didn't seem to bother Jim Morrison. Fast forward to the 1:15 mark (the entire thing is good) where he discusses the future of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHJ3jhg-pdg

 

[fat_fleet]

I don't understand hatred of programmed drums. Some people simply have no other option. They don't know a drummer or they live in apartments. It's a fantastic tool and has been for like 50 years, yet there is so much rage about them here. Hitting a drum doesn't make you cooler, more pure, or any other fake ethos. It sounds better, but the gap is closing fast.

Programmed drums can sound very good now and human if done right. Music progresses and always moves forward, despite the fact that some people want to get stuck in their era and ethos. After humans on computers, robots themselves will be making music, so you better brace for it. There are way more important problems with modern music than drum machines, namely limiters/loudness and brittleness/lack of warmth to the sound.

Didn't seem to bother Jim Morrison. Fast forward to the 1:15 mark (the entire thing is good) where he discusses the future of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHJ3jhg-pdg

Lol, you're not as persecuted as it appears you'd like to think. At least 90% of the members here use some sort of sampled percussion.

 

[beezelbubba]

I like programming drums.Lucky thing..I don't know the first thing about mic'ing a set!

 

[jimistone]

I don't understand hatred of programmed drums. Some people simply have no other option. They don't know a drummer or they live in apartments. It's a fantastic tool and has been for like 50 years, yet there is so much rage about them here. Hitting a drum doesn't make you cooler, more pure, or any other fake ethos. It sounds better, but the gap is closing fast.

Programmed drums can sound very good now and human if done right. Music progresses and always moves forward, despite the fact that some people want to get stuck in their era and ethos. After humans on computers, robots themselves will be making music, so you better brace for it. There are way more important problems with modern music than drum machines, namely limiters/loudness and brittleness/lack of warmth to the sound.

Didn't seem to bother Jim Morrison. Fast forward to the 1:15 mark (the entire thing is good) where he discusses the future of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHJ3jhg-pdg

I think programed drums can sound very good. The biggest weakness in sample drums is the cymbals. Even if I went to drum samples, which I may do before its over wirh, I would buy a set of hats, a good crash, and a good ride...with the appropriate stands and hardware. It just sounds better IMO