Songwriting & Money: What's Fair?

Z

Zombie King

New member
A few months ago, a guy came to me with a sketch of a tune: A basic blues pattern with bass, drums and guitar - and asked me if I could do "something" with it.

The same guy offered up what were about 4 lines of lyrics that didn't rhyme or even make much sense but based on that, I wrote completely new lyrics that projected a similar thought (he loves her, she loves some other guy, blah blah blah...) I did the vocal, added some blues harp and viola: Instant blues song.

So he hears the thing, says he loves it and wants to be given full credit for writting the lyrics. I thought, "why argue. Its not like the damned thing is going to be a hit or anything..."

So basically we're all sharing credit for the song in "the collaborative spirit" but he wants the song presented under my name because he thinks "it will get more listens" (his quote, not mine.)

Now, I've been approached by a small record company and I wanted to include the song on my 1st submission (which will be focused on blues) but when I asked him for permission, I see dollar signs where his eyeballs used to be.

What's fair?

By adding my lyrics & vocals and signature blues harp, didn't I take the song from being your average garden variety blues progression to an original song with a particular mood/style or "sound?" Since he came to me in the first place, I would assume that he wanted my particular "touch." Now that he has it, he wants to profit from it.

I don't want to deny the guy a fair portion of any profits made from the song but I feel like the song, and the opportunity exist soley because of my involvement.

One of us seems needlessly greedy.

It all makes me feel like doing a collaboration without 15 lawyers present is a mistake. And lets face it, I don't have to submit the song. I lose nothing.

Any thoughts?
 
I t hink in songwriting, you don't count lines. In other words, under the scenario you presented, it sounded like a co-write to me where you both would be listed as writers and unless another deal is worked out, it's a 50/50 split. That means he can take his half and go to one publisher and you can take your half and do the same.

And because the writer(s)(or the publisher) has the absolute say on the first party commercially releasing a song, each writer could nix a deal involving that first release. However, a demo is different and I don't think writer could stop the other from using a song for a demo. But why would you want to get interest in a song that you can't get release for?

As far as his eyes lighting up, neither of you won't get any money for it until someone commercially releases it and it sells or gets played on the air...that is...unless you get a super deal with an advance which probably isn't likely.

PaulB
 
PaulB, good points - all.

His reply to me was "I will not relinquish control" In otherwords, he says "3 way split" but he acts like he has full control... Whether he does or not is not an issue - The issue is about respect and professionalism.

Even with a 50/50 split, it seems odd that the guy would want to extend his hand at this stage in the game. I realize he is probably just using that language out of ignorance but its not my responsibility to hold his hand through my moment of opportunity.

At this stage, I simply won't submit the song and thus end any worry over future claims.

Any interest I have received in my work, excludes this particular song. The rep doesn't even know it exists.

Joro, The song is not yet officially copyrighted to my knowledge.

I did not copyright the song based on the attitude of the guy when he wanted full credit for writing the lyrics. Frankly, I was offended but I felt that he was probably just excited to share credit with me. I really don't mean to sound that egotistical but how else can I explain it?

He has never once brought up the subject of copyright which indicates a lack of knowledge or effort on his part.

It seems he wants to benefit from my performance, my exposure and my legal aid in addition to the income he hopes to collect.

Part of my "asking permission to submit" was to establish who and how copyright should be handled. But because he has put the "cart before the horse," I see no need to worry myself any further. My works are all protected.

Z
 
But if it's too much hassle, fuck the song and write another one. When all's said and done blues songs are that difficult to come up with; it's all been done before (well just about anyway).

I try not to get others involved in my songwriting until the later stages. It's where all this music business stuff really hurts. It can make your friends your enemies and can trun you away from music that you used to love and play as a hobby for hours on end.

Good luck.
 
Oh yeah,; with regard to the split-it has to be 50/50 really. Even though one of you has done the majority of the work, he came to you with the basis of the song and the original idea of the lyrics (even if not kept) and you reworked it/embellished it. The only way you could really argue it was your own is if he only gave you a standard 12 bar blues backing (for example) and you disregarded his lyrics and the theme/idea and wrote your own unrelataed.

If you have signed anything you should be bound by that. Other than that do you want to loose a friend?

Think fair, play fair as greed will get the better of you (not that I'm saying your doing something wrong here (but I can't stand people who do rip songwriters off)), except it and move on, submit the work with his approval or write another song.
 
Thanks for the lesson against collaboration in a songwriting project. I know what you mean when you refer to the $$ where the @@ used to be. Greed will make some people crazy, thats for sure. The problem is that we never know who will react that way....even ourselves. My advice is to file this one under "education" and dump the song...it's not worth the hassle.
writeon...chazba
 
That's why I posted this whole thing.

I think most of us really don't consider how quickly things can sour when money becomes involved.

Thanks for the comments and perspective you all have given me.

Z
 
Zombie,

What does the guy mean by a three way split? I thought there were only two of you. Or if you got a record deal in which that song was involved, he would not be part of that deal except to collect his part for the mechanical rate, now eight cents a copy, which would be split among the songwriters and publishers. But whatever royalty you got from the record company as an artist would be none of his business.

I guess the reasons you have given here are just a few of the reasons I don't like to co-write. Now I HAVE done it....11 times where songs were completed....two of them relationships of at least a year each. But people do often start getting greedy before there is any money in sight. Or not want to let songs out because they are saving them for their singing career. Things like this should come out in front, not as some "oh, by the way" disclosure on down the line.

The good thing is you found out you don't want to be in business with this guy before you wrong dozens of songs with him, tieing them up. It goes along with what a buddy of mine said one time...something about the first time he would loan somebody money, he would only loan them about five bucks max. That way, he would see how trustworthy they were. Then if he got burned,
it wasn't for much.

Also, I don't think anybody should go into a songwriting co-write without a discussion first of what is expected. First and foremost, I think the agreement should be that if there is a disagreement such as this, each party is able to take their contribution to the song back and do with it as they please. In your case, you've got the melody and any lines you came up with. You could do that now BUT the water is a little muddy now.

PaulB
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top