Songs Needed for Radio promotion

BroKen_H

BroKen_H

Re-member
Get e-mails from one of the songwriter's orgs I belong to that say they are making compilations of music for worldwide distribution to radio stations.
Lots of hype, no promise. Basic premise is they make 10 song CDs with a few well known bands and throw on indie material with. No cost to submit music, but $399 if you're chosen.
I guess it's a fairly good deal if you're solid on your music and recordings. I mean I like my songwriting and my playing, but my voice always throws it for me.
I'd like to get someone to sing the music for me (with a younger sounding voice), but don't want to end up in debt to some star/let who thinks they're the new prima don/na of the century, and I really don't know anybody.
Problem is, just writing good music doesn't seem to get you anywhere. It's got to be the whole package. Any advice?
 
They want YOU to pay $399 if your song is chosen? It's a rip-off, dude! It's not 'Hilltop Records' in Hollywood, is it? :facepalm:
 
I assumed you were getting paid $399 if you're chosen.
If not, it doesn't sound appealing! I get paid to be on radio. Not the other way around.
 
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Never get involved with, and never pay, an outfit that asks you to pay to get your song recorded or issued in a compilation, especially one that you don't know or contacts you asking for the payment. That's not the way legitimate music industry professionals function. If you ever feel that you really are getting a deal, investigate the company before you pay a dime.

These kind of "song publishers" have been around for decades with this same scam.
 
mjbphotos said:
They want YOU to pay $399 if your song is chosen?
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Gracenote stats on known recorded songs--
2005: 45 million
2011: 90 million.
2012: 230 million

With that kind of exponential curve, there's probably at least 5-10 times that today. That's billions and billions of minutes of recorded music, and that's only counting songs that have been pressed onto CDs for physical resell. Think how many are on iTunes, pandora, spotify, filesharing networks, burned CDs, MP3 mixing clinic forums, dusty hard drives and old tapes that never made it to a CD plant, for whatever reason.

There's about 25 million waking minutes in a healthy lifetime (quick math in my head I didn't check). The simplest look at supply and demand makes recorded music probably the least valuable thing that has ever been created in the history of mankind. It would take thousands of years to listen to it all. And by then there will be just... astronomically more of it - perfectly digitally preserved forever. I don't see any way to look at that and not see the inevitable conclusion that eventually it's going to require cash to even have a chance of getting 3 minutes to the top of the pile to choose from competing for the relatively miniscule number of minutes a person even lives, much less is awake and actually feels like trying to listen to something new.

I have no ideas for how to change the situation, but your (and others) surprise in the quote above struck me as odd enough to at least spark my interest to revisit those figures (which I haven't in years and they're actually even a bit shocking to me) and weigh in a bit, I guess... I know the numbers can be hacked away at a lot - but still... bananas.
 
RAMI said:
Dude, you usually seem like a smart guy. Sit back and re-read what you typed. Seriously, I know you're not that stupid. Is this some kind of a joke?
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Thank you. This is the first offer to come across my inbox, and being the smart guy you think I am I took Solomon's advice: "Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established." (Proverbs)
I was really, really leary of throwing away $400 (and that's exactly what I thought this was), but if I discarded it and that's the norm in the industry, I would be foolish. So I asked advice. Appreciate that you confirm my suspicions, so what's the RIGHT way of getting my stuff to a song buyers market?
I doubt that my voice would make radio, but I've heard a lot worse out there. Problem is, when I hear someone who's singing a great song horribly, it goes off in seconds, so I really want to market as songwriter and not artist.
 
Lay out your goals, Broken_H.

In this day and age you're competing with everyone!
Todays technology is great in that you can do what your parents/grandparents only dreamt of, but it also sucks because everyone else can too, right?
The old advice rings true though. Get out there. Meet people. Share your work, but listen to other people's too.
Integrate. Contact people.
Read guidelines and advice on 'white label' presentation when you're targeting radio etc. Try to look and sound like you're it, even if you might not be.
Act like a business man.

A lot of hard work and initiative is, and always has been, the key.
I don't really believe anyone was an overnight success without years of back work or an extremely lucky encounter with someone in a position of power. I think the media likes to sell us that, though. (I'm not including competitions etc here.)
Either way, it wont happen without getting out there.

That said, nothing is guaranteed. I'm in a position now where a fair bit of local (although big stations) airplay is almost guaranteed with any release. We have a few stations that will playlist us too and that's great, but this is strictly NI I'm talking about.
See trying to get anything aired on the mainland? Forget about it.
I could literally have about 200 broadcasts in NI in one quarter and nothing on the mainland at all.
I struggle to get a negative reply let alone anything else.

I mean, I'm under no illusions but I think we have some radio worthy singles and tracks out there.
All you can do is create the best product you can and put it everywhere you can.
Present yourself well online and off.
The rest is luck.

All that said, I think you have to be confident in what you're doing. If you're worried about your voice do some serious soul searching and get reviews from people you don't know.
 
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BroKen_H said:
Thank you. This is the first offer to come across my inbox, and being the smart guy you think I am I took Solomon's advice: "Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established." (Proverbs)
I was really, really leary of throwing away $400 (and that's exactly what I thought this was), but if I discarded it and that's the norm in the industry, I would be foolish. So I asked advice. Appreciate that you confirm my suspicions, so what's the RIGHT way of getting my stuff to a song buyers market?
I doubt that my voice would make radio, but I've heard a lot worse out there. Problem is, when I hear someone who's singing a great song horribly, it goes off in seconds, so I really want to market as songwriter and not artist.
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You didn't tell us - was it Hilltop Records?

As to your real issue: find a local songwriter circle group (form one if there aren't any nearby); network with other musicians in your area - open mics, jams; you may meet a singer who will work with you in exchange for your talents. You can also collaborate online, quite a few websites for that.
None of this will get your music 'magically' on the radio (OTA or online), though.
 
No, actually its CCMNI (Christian Contemorary Music Network International.)
I actually belong to several Christian songwriter's groups, but they are mostly back-patters, no real constructive criticism (that's why I'm HERE).
I understand it's a lot of work and a little (maybe still a lot) of luck to get anything out there, but there are venues, and I'm sure they're findable, to get stuff out. It's just the normal venues, like CDbaby, and the various web radio are made for complete product, not songwriting. Maybe a good step would be to join ASCAP/BMI?
 
Those are royalty collection agencies, right? It does no harm to be signed up, whether you think your recordings will be used or not.
When I signed up (PRS over here) it was just for the sake of it. Why not, right?
When little bits of money came dribbling in I couldn't believe it!
 
This is a pretty old scam. They used to troll MySpace and contact random bands to put them on compilations like this ("For $200 we'll put you on a CD with 11 other great artists. You'll get 100 copies, which you can sell for $10 a piece* and come out $800 ahead!" )

It's possible that someone is doing a legit version of this, but I'd insist on knowing who the "well known" bands are and making sure that those bands are distributing the compilation. (You and 6 other indie bands aren't going to gain anything by giving out a compilation, but if it ends up in the hands of 5000 fans of successful band, you'll probably get some new fans who never would have heard you before.)

* Fun fact: no you can't! Your mom will buy a $10 compilation album, and that's it.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
This is a pretty old scam. They used to troll MySpace and contact random bands to put them on compilations like this ("For $200 we'll put you on a CD with 11 other great artists. You'll get 100 copies, which you can sell for $10 a piece* and come out $800 ahead!" )

It's possible that someone is doing a legit version of this, but I'd insist on knowing who the "well known" bands are and making sure that those bands are distributing the compilation. (You and 6 other indie bands aren't going to gain anything by giving out a compilation, but if it ends up in the hands of 5000 fans of successful band, you'll probably get some new fans who never would have heard you before.)

* Fun fact: no you can't! Your mom will buy a $10 compilation album, and that's it.
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Yeah, most of the compilation CD's I've seen are either $1.99 or free. I realized (and still realize) that it was a scam, and THIS scam isn't about making you any money, but just getting your music to a couple hundred radio stations world-wide. Like I said, if my music was solid I might even consider it to get it in the hands of a couple hundred DJ's, but for a songwriter it's not even the right direction. AND you have no guarantee that any of the radio stations will PLAY your music...
Yes, we're beyond that and looking for GOOD venues for creative songwriters. Besides, I'd have to sell my copy to someone else, cause my mom's dead!
 
Have any idea how many CDs radio stations get in every day? If anyone at those stations even had the desire, they woudlnt' be able to listen to a small fraction of them.
When I mentioned a songwriter circle, its a group that WILL be good for constructive (and sometimes destructive) advice. The group I'm in just formed in January, and at our monthly meeting everyone brings 1 (or 2) songs, with lyric/chord sheets, plays the song, then others give suggestions/ideas. When we're (typical for people here) writing/recording our songs solo we may be too close to the song to think about subtle changes that others pick up on. The MP3 clinic is fine for mix critiquing, but its best to get the song polished before recording, IMO.
 
BroKen_H said:
, so what's the RIGHT way of getting my stuff to a song buyers market?
I doubt that my voice would make radio, but I've heard a lot worse out there. Problem is, when I hear someone who's singing a great song horribly, it goes off in seconds, so I really want to market as songwriter and not artist.
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What is this "song buyer's market" you speak of? I really want to know... Do people still spend money on music? Do you?
If you feel comfortable answering, about how much money do you spend on other people's music per year? I'm sincerely interested.
 
I buy everything I listen to. Every Tuesday, I go looking for new music and spend $5 to $50 per week; $400-600 per year. Not what I meant be a "song buyer's market." I mean there are plenty of songwriters out there that don't record their own stuff. They sell to artists. That's the market I'm trying to get into.
If I have a great idea for a sellable product, I can patent it, take it to an investors' group and probably get it marketed. I've followed that path before. Doesn't pay as much as you'd think unless you're willing to invest your own cash and back it, but it does pay. Any community college can hook you up with an investor's group (or maybe my local one is special).
So, if I have a great song idea, I copyright it, and then pfft, that's it. Where do you take it? That's the group I'm looking for. The people who market songs to musicians. Maybe that part of the chain doesn't exist and I need to use contacts and fight my way up, but that would be nice to know, too.
 
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BroKen_H said:
The people who market songs to musicians. Maybe that part of the chain doesn't exist and I need to use contacts and fight my way up, but that would be nice to know, too.
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I hate to break this to you, but you're asking for the wrong advice from the wrong place. If anyone here had the answer on how to make money in music, they would be doing it themselves. It's like you're asking a bunch of blind guys how to paint. Tons of people work hard at it. Tons of people network, go on money losing tours, get out there, spam their shit all over the place......they get nothing out of it. The music biz runs in parallel to general society - the gap between the haves and the have nots is bigger than ever.

In my humble opinion, I think you're shit out of luck, because that's what you need - luck. Nothing else. Just luck. You need to befriend the right guy that has a connection to something.

If you want to make maybe a modest living wage from music, you need to become a very good player and go play in cover bands literally every night.
 
It's a double edged sword though, isn't it?
What you're saying is true. Plenty of people go through the motions and almost certainly wont see success from it but if you don't go through the motions have no chance at all.

If you believe in your product and you want to try this thing, commit 100% to it every waking second of the day and be prepared for it to consume your life, probably for nothing.
If you don't, just don't even try. There's no point in being half assed.
 
Right, it's almost a no-win. I look at it like this:

You can work your ass off and do everything the "right" way
You can do nothing, spam minimally at your own convenience, and wait for that lucky break

Either way your chances of success are pretty much nil. To make things worse, or better, I think the odds are stacked against an artist so badly now that you'd have just as much chance of success by sitting back and doing nothing as you would if you hit the pavement hard every single day.
 
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