Some Mixing Tips

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and the right amount of dynamic range changes (if the singer moves around - something that's never been covered in any thread here, but is very important).
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OK...you went there....:D

How DO you handle a singer that moves all over the place? I've got one in the studio now that has a TON of range, and the dynamics in the songs require everything from just over a whisper to full-blown, from-the-gut blasting. He knows enough to back off the mic when he's letting it rip, but he also moves around (left to right) when he's not at either extreme, and does a lot of movement towards and away from the mic when he's "into" the song, regardless of the dynamics of the song at the time he's singing.

Since my room isn't the greatest, I've tried to keep him fairly close to the mic, but it's like trying to put a collar on a butterfly....we've had to re-do a few vocals because he rolled into the mic during a particularly dynamic part of the song, and I wasn't quick enough on the fader....
 
Hang a piece of string off the ceiling at the distance you want him to be from the mic.......then tell him to keep his nose almost touching it at all times.

:cool:
 
Okay, remember that volume drops off with the square of the distance for small "point sources" (whether it's a singer or a P.A. system). It's called the "inverse square" law. Let's see how it works out in actual use:

Let's say the singer is 2" from the mic. If the singer moves back to 4", the output from the mic will drop to 1/2 of what it was (-6dB). If the singer moves back to 8", the sound will drop to 1/4 (-12dB) of what it was at 2", and 1/8 (-18dB) of the original level if the singer moves back to 16". So a 7" swing either way can make a big difference in the recording level.

But let's move the singer back 2' from the mic. In order to double or halve the signal from that distance, the singer would hafta move in to the 1' mark or out to the 4' mark - a lot harder to do. Moving 7" back and forth at 2 or 3' will only result in a few dB or so difference in level.

In close, you need compression to keep the levels consistent; far less compression (or no compression) when the singer is further away. It also helps with the singer's head-turning problems.

But, you might ask, won't moving the singer that far back from the mic change the sound drastically?

You bet it will, and that's why I said I've learned over the years how different mics work at different distances. Figure 8 and hypercardioid mics have greater amounts of proximity effect than cardioids and wide cardioids, so I'll use those patterns if I need proximity effect at a greater than usual distance.

If there's too much room sound at that distance, I'll use a couple of sound deadening panels, set up in a "V" to reduce the effect of the room.

And all of this ties in with the "big thread" - it's all related, and in time, it becomes almost second nature to you. About the only time you hafta think about it is when somebody asks, "Why are you doing that?".
 
Harvey, could you say more about which direction the "V" of the deadening panels face?

For example, does the singer sing towards the inside of the "V," or does she put her back to the inside?

Regards-
Woodshedder
 
I have had many issues with singers who have jumping beans in their pants. I usually can get a pretty good even recording by using a FET compressor, but I really prefer nailing their feet to the floor.

What I like about FET compressors is that they are very fast.
VCA compressors while quick, are not as fast as most FET's, and Optical is just a bit too slow for this kind of job, but a very fast attack with a ratio of about 2:1 to 5:1 has pretty much done the job for me in keeping the singer level when his beans start heating up, but each vocalist is different. So, even if the vocalist moves a couple of inches I am pretty well taken care of in either bringing up the level, or keeping it down. Since the ratio is light, you really don't hear much of the compressor at all. From there, I work with it in the mix if I need to.

Harvey is correct that proximity can be better on certian mics in different patterns, but you all have to have the experience of knowing which ones they are, and how the tend to alter the sound of what your trying to capture. Trying to keep the vocalists concentration on what they are doing is the best way, but for those who can't...FET, FET, FET!

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
woodshedder said:
Harvey, could you say more about which direction the "V" of the deadening panels face?

For example, does the singer sing towards the inside of the "V," or does she put her back to the inside?

Regards-
Woodshedder
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The singer faces into the open part of the V, like this:

o (assuming the 'o' is the singer)
V (the 'V' is the two sound deadening baffles)

At Village Recorders in L.A., they had a 3-sided 8'x8'x7' tall room, made with PVC pipes, with cool tie-dyed or paisley material around the back, both sides, and over the top. A nice Persian rug was on the floor.

I think it was set up for Christine McVey (Fleetwood Mac), since her piano was there as well. She could sit or stand in this little room (inside the studio) and do vocals without distractions, and the material was heavy enough to block some of the room reflections. It could be taken down or put up in about 15 minutes.
 
Alan is absolutely correct about having a fast compressor available when you can't get the distance, for whatever reasons. It doesn't solve the problem of the singer turning their head (and you hear all the high end in their voice disappear), but at least it keeps the levels steady.

It's a big problem with inexperienced singers and there's no real cure, except to point it out to them, and hope they learn.
 
alanhyatt said:
I have had many issues with singers who have jumping beans in their pants. I usually can get a pretty good even recording by using a FET compressor, but I really prefer nailing their feet to the floor.

What I like about FET compressors is that they are very fast.
VCA compressors while quick, are not as fast as most FET's, and Optical is just a bit too slow for this kind of job, but a very fast attack with a ratio of about 2:1 to 5:1 has pretty much done the job for me in keeping the singer level when his beans start heating up, but each vocalist is different. So, even if the vocalist moves a couple of inches I am pretty well taken care of in either bringing up the level, or keeping it down. Since the ratio is light, you really don't hear much of the compressor at all. From there, I work with it in the mix if I need to.

Harvey is correct that proximity can be better on certian mics in different patterns, but you all have to have the experience of knowing which ones they are, and how the tend to alter the sound of what your trying to capture. Trying to keep the vocalists concentration on what they are doing is the best way, but for those who can't...FET, FET, FET!

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
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That's interesting. Seriously. Thanks for the contribution.
 
STICKY

This is a good thread and IMO needs to stay at the top of our mic board... please help me keep this thread at the top of our message board until RE has time to make it a "sticky". Thank you.
 
I could happily host something like that if you want ... I have to make a 'music technology beginners' website for my degree which is being finished on Thursday but available for viewing now at http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nikkeefe .

It's hand-coded HTML (part of the specification for the coursework) so be nice, but I will happily adapt this post-Thursday for any kind of resource that people think might be useful. I have 50mb of free space and could easily set up a .info pseudo-domain.
 
crazydoc said:
Maybe Graham could add it to the FAQ. Make a section called "Hall of Fame Threads" and we could submit nominees. Harvey's other thread on auditioning mics belongs there too.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38175
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That's a good idea... hey Graham if you see this, please add this thread to the FAQ. Thanks :)

Yeah, I like that thread too... here's another one of my favorites (piano/mics)... http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=72369&highlight=Piano
 
you know you're enjoying having an excuse to expand your post-count ;)

the fact is that there's no mod here to do that anyway. it's a free-for-all. so here goes:

uh ...

Recording is rubbish!

See, I won't get banned.
 
Considering this thread started in June of 2002, I thought it might be interesting for newer members to see just how good this Mic forum use to be.
And this was only considered a "four star" thread.
 
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Ouch! Yes ... I will definitely read through it. The problem with this forum is too many fly-by-night newbies coming in, asking a stock question and then disappearing. People like Dracon who stay here through and then start re-contributing are cool. I'm a total beginner but I don't get better cos I'm on here answering other beginners' questions!!
 
It's usually silly to bring up old threads, but not in the case of what's being revived here and in a few other threads being dragged up by Harvey. Thanks, I never would have known they were here. I read the big mic thread almost as soon as I found this place, and am looking forward to more good reads. Sort of, as I now have to read them. :mad: :p

Maybe it is getting close to a need to archive some of these old threads so they don't get lost? Not in the archive section we have now, but a separate "serious" archive section.

I'm gonna post that in the feedback section.
 
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