So what's a couple thousand bucks amongst tube compressors???

S

swindle

New member
Alright my friends, I want the brutal truth don't hold back.
What's the difference between a SUPER-budget compressor like an ART Tube ($100) and something like a $1700 Summit Audio TLA-100A?

Is it honestly a dollar-for-dollar case of 'you get what you pay for' or will the cheap guy hold its own when it comes to acting as a VOCAL compressor with nice thick sound and good presence?

P.s. For medium-good quality home studio recording.
 
O.K. folks are you really comparing an RNC to Summit Audio TLA-100A? I love the RNC and all, but I think you guys are hypetyping.

To really answer the question;

It's a matter of features, sound, and flexibility. The RNC is a good compressor but it lacks quite a few features that would make it a pro compressor. It is too slow for a lot of program material, it doesn't allow for control over a lot of the compressor functions. it has VERY limited metering, the patching is limited, etc.

FMR was able to make a great compressor for the price. I have one too. But to compare it to compressors in the $1700 range does a disservice to FMR and to the original poster. Pro's won't be ditching their 160's, 1176's, LA-2A's, API's, Manley's, and Fairchilds for RNC's anytime soon.

The RNC is a great introduction to the wide wonderful world of compression.

p.s. I posted earlier that the RNC had no side chain, I was wrong...oops

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
 
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Yup...

Tom's absolutely right... the RNC is intended as a high-quality compressor at a low-quality price -- but it is not a "pro" unit. It is still a good compressor though.

FMR doesn't even market it to the Pros - their literature clearly states they chose a moderate gain structure (not as low as -10 but not +4 either) to allow for compatibility with their intended customer base - the prosumer gear users. If it was strictly pro, it would be +4, have balanced I/O, and contain all the features Tom mentioned...
(and it probably wouldn't be 1/3 rack size, but that's just my opinion!!) :)

Bruce

(Hey -- I'm not knocking the RNC - but let's not hype it either.... it's no Manley et al!)
 
OK, lets check these statements out and compare the RNC to some of the other compressors mentioned here.

[The RNC] is too slow for a lot of program material

Fastest attack rate:
dbx 160A: Program dependant. Higher-compression = faster attack. Highest mentioned is 3ms (30db)
API 225L: 2ms
Manley Variable Mu compressor: 25ms
RNC: 0.2ms

it doesn't allow for control over a lot of the compressor functions.

dbx 160A: variable Threshold with 3-way selectable mode; variable compression ratio.
API 225L: variable threshold; variable release; variable ratio; knee (hard/soft); type (old/new); attack (fast/slow)
Manley: Recovery 5 way selectable; variable attack; variable threshold; selectable compress or limit mode;
RNC: variable threshold; variable ratio; variable attack; variable release; mode (nice/super nice)

it has VERY limited metering

dbx 160A: 19 segment level led (switchable input/outpt) + 12 segment gain reduction led
API 225L: 5 segment gain reduction LED
Manley: gain reduction VU meters
RNC: 8 segment gain reduction led

it has no side chain

dbx 160A: Has side chain
API 225L: Has side chain
Manley: No side chain
RNC: Has side chain

The patching is very limited

And what is that supposed to mean? The RNCs inputs are TRS tailored to be patched with a stereo cable directly into a mixer channel.

FMR was able to make a great compressor for the price. I have one too. But to compare it to compressors in the $1700 range does a disservice to FMR and to the original poster. Pro's won't be ditching their 160's, 1176's, LA-2A's, API's, Manley's, and Fairchilds for RNC's anytime soon.

"Ditching?" For the price of the RNC you do not need to sell your other compressors to buy one. But if you mean that pros won't be using the RNC that is simply false. They are using it. Not ALWAYS, but sometimes.

dbx Senior Technical Support

I have a dbx 163A. I love it, it's great, dbx makes excellent compressors. But when I see people from dbx behaving like this I know I should get an RNC, and so should everyone else, you are obviously scared shitless by it. FMRAudio has made a product that is basically revolutionizing, and it has thrown the compressor market into a fit. But cool it, in a couple of years dbx will have compressors that work in the same way like the RNC; and you too will have great stereo compressors for $200 bucks.

B t w, most compressors specifically mentioned by Tom are vintage gear that isn't manufactured anymore, and so is hard to find specs for. But dbx, API and Manley are current manufacturers. I selected the three compressors to compare with this way:
The 160A: Because Tom mentioned the 160.
The 225L: It was the first API compressor I found specs for.
The Variable Mu: I have heard loads of good things about it.
So I did not pic these to make the RNC look good. In fact, I specifically picked the Variable Mu to make the RNC look bad. It did not work. I expected the RNC to compare OK with the other compressors. But in all cases except the metering, it wins over the other compressors!

Yes, the RNC is made for the prosumer market. But It obviously kicks ass, and badmouthing it will kick back.
 
Tom Cram said:


O.K. folks are you really comparing an RNC to Summit Audio TLA-100A? I love the RNC and all, but I think you guys are hypetyping.


Click to expand...

No Tom, I assumed that anyone who was considering a $100 compressor wasn't really going to buy a $1700 unit. I guess I was wrong to not answer the question as it was stated, but the line....

swindle said:


"will the cheap guy hold its own when it comes to acting as a VOCAL compressor with nice thick sound and good presence?

P.s. For medium-good quality home studio recording."

....made me think that he was just looking for the best 'performance to price' compressor for home recording. I firmly believe that the RNC fits these criteria perfectly.
Click to expand...
 
Great post by regebro! To say that the RNC is not pro is ridiculous. If it were not pro, pros wouldn't use it, which they do. It happens to be one of the best values a pro or amatuer could easily afford. I've seen Blue Bear Sound rave about the Presonous stuff, while I've read other "pros" proclaim it to be junk that lacks any headroom with less than adequate phantom power. As far as DBX goes, they've turned out their share of turds. Is the RNC pro enough and affordable enough to slap 10 channels of them onto a mix session and get a "pro" sounding result of good transparent compression? What affordable DBX compressor can we do that with?
 
I'll stand by the missing "pro" features, I already stand corrected on the sidechain error. As far as "scared shitless," I don't think so. I was very careful about not bringing up dbx compressors that I feel are direct competition to the RNC. I was also very careful not to get into a pissing match about sound quality. I mentioned missing features, in fact I'll mention some more;

No dual mono
No switchable metering
No array of input output options
No contour

That said, I own an RNC. I plan to buy another one. Somehow you guys are thinking I was saying the RNC sucks...wrong, far from it. If you guys want to make this a dbx versus RNC thing, I'm out. I won't play that game.

Perhaps I should have left the dbx title off my post so that it wouldn't seem like I was representing dbx. I copy the title over out of habit from my text editor. I'll be more careful in the future.
 
E-money said:
I've seen Blue Bear Sound rave about the Presonous stuff, while I've read other "pros" proclaim it to be junk that lacks any headroom with less than adequate phantom power.
Click to expand...
Rave? I mean, I like my Presonus VXP, I don't really recall "raving" about it.... I'm eyeing a Great River pre at the moment!! ;)

This is not about DBX vs. FMR... The RNC is a really nice compressor ( :p :) ), worth its weight in gold - the big downtown boys *may* be using it. I'm not tryin gto bad-mouth it at all either!! I love both of mine and I plan to buy a couple more! But FMR Audio doesn't market it to the pro community......... so what?? That doesn't mean it's not a great compressor....

Does it compete with the Manleys, Focusrites, APIs, et al??? To some (good) degree I'm certain it does - but that also doesn't make it a pro-oriented piece of gear in a marketing sense....

FYI - the blurb on the FMR site clearly indicating their intended market:
Why is the RNC unbalanced instead of balanced?
You'd think the answer to this one would be a simple "to keep costs down". Although that's one of the reasons, there's another reason that's less obvious and the primary one: we designed the RNC to be used in home studios (like ours) made up primarily of unbalanced pieces. So, we designed it to easily interface to equipment usually found in the intended environment. For example, many home studios
use mixing boards that have single Tip-Ring-Sleeve insert points on their input channels. We thought that it'd be neat, convenient and show unambiguous support for this studio type by allowing the RNC to be hooked directly to these inserts with single TRS cables. If the I/Os were balanced, we wouldn't be able to do that.
Click to expand...

Clearly, they feel they're selling to the home/project arena....

Bruce
 
they are marketing to the pro-sumer/homemarket group, but the RNC is clearly a PRO comprssor, no matter the "features"...my Focusrite Red Preamp only has an i/o and one knob (no DI, no pad), does that mean its not a PRO mic pre? dont think so...
 
we're talking about "pro" gear here, you said it was not a pro compressor because it lacked features. I say your dead wrong. Maybe a preamp was not the best analogy. Let me throw this one at you: LA-2A. Need I make my point any further?
 
Another perspective:

Without detracting in any way from what the RNC is and how good it may sound (I don't have one to compare), we should recognize that the features that Tom Cram mentioned are very common features that do add value to a piece of equipment.
Just consider two of the features:
1. Dual mono
2. Balance Output.

High quality output transformers typically add approx. $100 per two channels, and in order to get dual mono (my preferred mode) I would need to get two RNCs. All of a sudden, the RNC doesn't seem nearly as inexpensive as it at first seems.

If people are happy without those features, that is fine, but dual mono and balanced outputs are features that many users want because they are truly valuable and really work. The other features that Tom mentions are also valuable (if not necessary). When the RNC is compared (cost/quality) with units that have these desired features, it loses most of its apparent cost advantages.

Nothing against the RNC. I am fascinated by their uniformly positive reviews also. But I doubt that the "pro" quality manufacturers are really scared. It might add a little more pressure for them to get sonic quality as high as possible though, which is a good thing, and the reason for free-market competition.

BTW: I don't think there are "pro" boxes...only "pro" users.....of whatever box fulfills their needs adequately.

Peace,
Rick
 
Re: Another perspective:

The Axis said:

BTW: I don't think there are "pro" boxes...only "pro" users.....of whatever box fulfills their needs adequately.
Click to expand...

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any engineer can make use of anything if it works well for them (whether oriented to "Pros" or not).....

Bruce
 
Man, what a mess.....

Also, what a lot of uninformed opinions (again!).

I am with Tom on this one. I have heard some tracks with the RNC on it. Not a lick better then my Behringer Composer (old model, NOT the new ones).

Neither delieved the ultra silky smooth, rightly colored, if any color, ACCURATE gain reduction as the many hi end comp/limiters I have had the pleasure to work with here and there.

Hell, give me a Compellor over most this cheap stuff!

Joe Meek? Give me a break.....Designed for the analog world....

Ed
 
Ed, you disappoint me. I don't know how you guys can say that the RNC in not a pro quality piece of gear. Have you really used an RNC? You also imply that the RNC is not accurate :confused:..huh??..oh well.

But I'm with you on the Joe Meek stuff :D

YMMV
 
Tom: No, it was good that you had the dbx signature in your post. It shows that you are a part in the case. Leaving it out would have been dishonest, and if somebody then had realized you work for dbx you would have lost all hope of ever being trusted again.
You are also trying hard to undermine your thrustworthyness by still maintaining your claims about the RNC although they are largely false. That is utterly stupid. Most of the high-end pro equipment does not do any better than the RNC is the things you mention.

Some things are true: The RNC does not have balanced ins /outs. It does not have dual mono (but it's also true whats said, it would make it almost twice as expensive, so why not just buy two instead?)
Yes, it is not a pro unit, and it is not aimed at the pro market. But continuing to spread incorrect information will not help your case, Tom. And you mentioned the 160, and it's successor, the 160A IS a direct competitor to the RNC, like it or not.

Sonusman: It's refreshing to see somebody that DON'T think the RNC kick the ass of all compressors below $2000. If your insane or everybodye else is, I don't know, yet. :)
 
The Axis

Merely coincidentally:
But when I was recently comparing compressors, I was considered:
1. 2 RNC's = $375-$390 (good user reviews, few features)
2. Behringer Composer Pro = ($200-$250) (mixed user reviews, but I personally have other Behr stuff and find the user reviews to be grossly negatively biased. The fact that the most credible ones I have read are by people who own both an RNC and a Behr and find them roughly comparable in sound quality.)
3. dbx 1066 = $399 Good user reviews and many more features. Plus reputable mfgr with good user support.

There are many more in this category; I am just citing what seemed like the serious contenders in my mind.
When compared directly against the large amount of competition, the RNC really doesn't seem like a giant-killer at all, but rather just one in a quite large group of contenders in the low-priced compressor market.

Maybe the RNC does sound so fabulous that it kills the other off...I don't know because I have never heard one. I am just saying that it is not in any way obvious that the RNC is superior to these others from their documentation or cost/feature ratio.

Frankly, it also makes me a little nervous that FMR audio NEVER changes their website ! :) But of course, some others don't either. It seems like typing in a news blurb once a month really couldn' t be that tough.

BTW: I have not bought anything yet.

Rick
 
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