small tube amp

Z

Ziller

New member
I'm thinkin of getting a small tube amp to use for recording. Up until now, I've been going through a di, or my bass amp, to record my guitar (bass has been my main thing). Works, but thats about it. I love the sound of the old fender twin, and would like to get something similar, only WAYYYY smaller and WAYYYYYYYYYYYY cheeper. Something that I can really crank, get a good overdriven tube sound, but not be very loud. I'll mic it from there.

I was lookin at a fender pro junior at the music shop today, for $250. Seemed nice. Anyone use this amp? $250 is actually more then I want to spend though.

Any suggestions from you guitar players?


Thanks
 
Personally, I think mic-ing a tiny little amp is about the same as ...well...mic-ing a little tiny amp. If you think you can get a little amp to sound like a wall of Marshalls on tape, then good luck. I think you'd have better luck with a POD or something like that. I've heard all the stories about famous gtr players mic-ing Pignoses, and the like, but I don't think it works. I use an Ampeg V4 cranked to the max, but I am ALSO pushing some air thru some stacks of 4x12 speakers. I think actually moving some air, getting good speakers to overdrive, IN ADDITION to your amp helps to get a good rock and roll sound. I think you're really wasting your time, and I think an amp simulator type stomp box will get you much closer to your goal...unless you want the sound of a little tiny Champ amp. You mention you like the sound of a old Fender twin. Actually, those are pretty "clean" sounding amps, even when cranked to the max...just LOUD and clean then. Endorsing the POD again, I feel their "black panel" setting is one of their best sounds on the unit, and will probably get closer to your "twin" sound better than you trying to get a decent sound mic'd....especially if you're bedroom recording. If you've got a nice recording environment, some good engineer skills, and the equipment to recreate what your mic hears...plus a set of ears, you could probably capture a good sound. I personally hear very little of it on these forums and the POD results always sounds better to me. Newer-ish, smaller amps that people use, always sound crappy most of the time.....mainly because I think people of lesser skills GENERALLY have equipment of lesser quality....and the two add up. The "pros" usually use the real deal.... Believe me, your $250 Fender pro jr won't sound like a vintage twin. The POD will get you closer, and is your lest expensive route and most versatile too.
 
hmmm...

Thanks for the input. guess I'll just have to give it a try. The one and only good thing about the local music shop here is that they have a 10 day, no hassle return deal. You don't like it, or want it, bring it back.

I don't want a pod.
 
I don't know...I've gotten some pretty good sounds out of micing small amps. That being said, a POD is gonna be WAY more flexible that any one amp; even a big one. There are so many amp modelers out there that I think anyone with a studio (even a small one) should have one. I have a Johnson and a POD 2, both of which I like for different things and I'm told the V-amp2 is worth having.
 
micing small amps works.... you do not need a 100 watt beast growling at max... pushing air is cool yes, but the small amp will give you great sound...

guhlenn
 
mixmkr said:
Personally, I think mic-ing a tiny little amp is about the same as ...well...mic-ing a little tiny amp. If you think you can get a little amp to sound like a wall of Marshalls on tape, then good luck.
Click to expand...
Actually - even though it's a bit of a contradiction, that's exactly what does happen!

Many of everyone's favorite rockers with memorable rhythm guitar intros were done PRECISELY with small amps......

The reason is simple -- you don't NEED massive level in the studio for recording -- doing so means pads on the mic pres anyways. A cranked smaller amp will give you that nice creamy distortion very easily without deafening the world.

Bruce
 
Yup, Bruce is entirely correct. If you were to poll alot of the big studios in the mid 70's to the early 90's, some of the best screaming tones were our of small, fender tube amps...not Marshall stacks. I read articles many times where the fender tube amps, 8 inch speaker...were cranked to the limits and mic'd with several mics to get a nice rich screaming tone...The sustain is unbeatable and the the SPL's are still reasonable. Though the amp simulators might get you close and have more variables to play with but it still won't give you that sound. I think anyone seriously taking on the task of recording guitars should invest in many options, the Fender Tube amps, the Champs and the like are great. Just my lil ol opinion...


Peace,
Dennis
 
Yeah I second the small amp thing. The early led zeppelin alblems were all done thru Jimmy Pages 10w Supro amp and they sounded huge. Im using a tech21 trademark 10, and a crate 5 watt tube combo designed for Harp,(its the greatest for running emulaters and modelers thru). from there I can put a 57 off axis and a C1 about 6ft away. Killer tone from this method and I didnt even break my back and get arrested for disturbing the peace.
 
guhlenn - man I was totally gonna do that myself a few months ago! The link you posted is a great resource. I decided to first make a couple of solid state things, before jumping into the high power stuff, and built a couple of active DIs. This site has some great stuff:

http://sound.westhost.com/projects.htm#index

along with this one:

http://www.epanorama.net/links/music.html

BEst of luck. I've listed to some of the finished ones. I love the one this guy made:

http://www.ax84.com/media/ax84_m176.jpg

DIY!
 
Eric Clapton once used a little Pignose in the studeo. But, you really should think about amp sims. I use the J-Station (only one with S/PDIF out), but they all sound good if you twiddle the knobs a little.
 
About 25 years ago we did an album that used a steel guitar through a pignose (open) miced with a 57 on a couple of tracks. Sounded great.

I've got a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe that sounds great with all kinds of overdrive possibilities at lower volumes. Gets that Chuck Berry/Maybeline sound, but it's probably too expensive. Carvin makes something very close with more effects.
 
I was invited to sit in on a session by a friend a few years ago.When we got there,they were cutting guitar tracks,and the guitar sound in the control room was like Billy Gibbons on steroids,I mean it was huge and nasty.When I craned my neck to peer throught the glass into the tracking room,I couldn't believe what I saw.They had a set of cheap headphones plugged into the headphone jack on a little bitty Marshall practice amp with a '57 duct taped to one of the earpieces facing the driver..........how do they think this stuff up?
 
I'll "give in" to the success many people have had mic-ing little amps, but I think you end up with a different sound than micing something larger, and CAPTURING the sound of a good room too. You can hear it in "live" albums, as the effect is there..abeit not the same quality as a studio track. I "feel" that the smaller stuff does give you a smoothe sound, but it usually ends up sounding like a Mesa rectified sound...or a ZZ top sound. ...heavy distortion..and yes smooth...but not CHUNKY, like a Van halen sound....or a select Hendrix Ka-chuunk...
I like the mic'd headphone idea....what a riot! I'll have to try that!
 
I'm going to get some flack for this I'm sure!

A short story by me...............
I'm an amp tech of 20 years which has some advantages. One being that every amp I repair, bias, or whatever I get the oportunity to play through to make sure all is good and that the amp sounds as it should.

I got this amp in once and replaced the output tubes and biased it. Because of the brand name, I was at the time not expecting any "Act-of-God" tone. In fact, I will say that I was probably a little bit biased the other way. To my surprise, this thing was one of (if not THE) best sounding combo amps I have heard. I looked through the schematic and compared it to several similar amps in the Aspen-Pitman book. I found it to be ALMOST a match to a Vox AC30, except it had 2nd channel with serious gain.

The amp...............Crate VC30...I am dead serious and I now own one.

Let the flogging begin!

:p :p :p :p
 
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