SM57 gain

J

JKZ001

New member
I'm new to recording and currently use a Presonus Firestudio Project with an SM57 to mike a guitar combo. It seems like there is hardly enough gain in the Firestudio Project mic preamps to get decent sound levels from the SM57. I had read that the SM57 requires a minimum 50db of gain to get anything out of it and the preamps on the FsP are rated at 50db of gain.

Is it worthwhile to buy a single channel tube preamp for the SM57 before running it into the FsP? In order to see any signal at all from the SM57 I need to crank up the mic preamp gain to max which then starts to distort. I want great guitar sounds from this setup but it seems like I'm gain deprived at the moment.

Thanks for any advice offered!

:guitar:
 
What level are are you seeing when recording? -18dB to -12dB is the desired range when tracking digitally.
 
Barely moved the meters. I have to turn the gain for the input to maximum in order to see virtually anything, even then it's only about 1/3 of max input levels. Typically -40db on the FSP preamp.
 
Steenamaroo said:
What type of cable are you using?
It should be XLR male to XLR female.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is XLR male to XLR female. Standard mic cable just as I have used in live sound situations with a PA system for the past 48 years. Always had a gain control on a live sound mixer to add a bit of gain when needed to accommodate weaker mics. The FsP doesn't have that "extra" gain button or knob to tweak the level up a bit so I feel like I need a preamp in front of the FsP mic preamp. Just wondering if it's a good idea to do that since I'm new to recording & want to obtain good results.
 
JKZ001 said:
Barely moved the meters. I have to turn the gain for the input to maximum in order to see virtually anything, even then it's only about 1/3 of max input levels. Typically -40db on the FSP preamp.
Click to expand...

See, or hear? I'd disregard the visual displays because there are zoom options at play etc. It's not reliable.

What do the meters in your recording software say for peak values?
The -40 on the preamp doesn't matter so much, but the software meters will tell you something.

I very much doubt you need to buy a preamp.
The firestudio project is more than adequate for what you're doing and if you can't get a decent signal level there's a problem somewhere.

You say you're new to recording so I want to make sure your expectations aren't offset. You recorded levels should be peaking around -10 maximum in the recording software.
People often think they should be hitting red.
 
Steenamaroo said:
See, or hear? I'd disregard the visual displays because there are zoom options at play etc. It's not reliable.

What do the meters in your recording software say for peak values?
The -40 on the preamp doesn't matter so much, but the software meters will tell you something.

I very much doubt you need to buy a preamp.
The firestudio project is more than adequate for what you're doing and if you can't get a decent signal level there's a problem somewhere.

You say you're new to recording so I want to make sure your expectations aren't offset. You recorded levels should be peaking around -10 maximum in the recording software.
People often think they should be hitting red.
Click to expand...

Studio One software levels are also showing very low. Low enough that I have to pump up the faders to max. I'm coming in at -40db w/preamp gain knob set at 12:00. Audio levels in the monitors are commensurately low so it's not just the meters, there is an audible lack of volume. What I am saying is that even with the mic preamp gain set to max (which results in distortion), & the Studio One faders set to max, I can't get higher than perhaps -20db. Swapped cables, same result.

I have heard of people needing to use preamps with SM57's before but just don't know if it's something that is fairly common or if what I'm experiencing is indication of an issue with the mic. I get a signal, it's just not at a high enough level.

Thanks
 
JKZ001 said:
Studio One software levels are also showing very low. Low enough that I have to pump up the faders to max. I'm coming in at -40db w/preamp gain knob set at 12:00. Audio levels in the monitors are commensurately low so it's not just the meters, there is an audible lack of volume. What I am saying is that even with the mic preamp gain set to max (which results in distortion), & the Studio One faders set to max, I can't get higher than perhaps -20db. Swapped cables, same result.

I have heard of people needing to use preamps with SM57's before but just don't know if it's something that is fairly common or if what I'm experiencing is indication of an issue with the mic. I get a signal, it's just not at a high enough level.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Ok, something's definitely wrong.
There's a problem that needs to be fixed, but you don't need to buy a new preamp to do it.

What kind of volume is the source? Is the amp loud?
Is the shure definitely genuine?

Do you have another mic to test with the interface, or another interface to test your mic with?

Are you recording on a laptop?
Is there any possibility that the recording is being made from the built in microphone by mistake?
Sounds stupid, but it has happened before.
 
What sort of DAW meter levels do you get if you yodel into the mic at zero inches with the gain flat out?

Very, very approximately normal speech should give around -20dBFS. Yes! You expect things to be livelier don't you? I can assure you this where we all are with dynamic mics and "average" AIs. My A&H mixer has a bit more in hand but not a lot.

If the gob test seems about right then you might not be running the amp loud enough. They can sound pretty loud in the room but the SPL at the mic is not really all that high.

I did a noise reference test a couple of weeks ago. Bit late now and wife has pitted but I shall fire up the trusty HT-20 the morrow and give some numbers relating SPL to DAW meters, at the speaker fret.

Dave.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Ok, something's definitely wrong.
There's a problem that needs to be fixed, but you don't need to buy a new preamp to do it.

What kind of volume is the source? Is the amp loud?
Is the shure definitely genuine?

Do you have another mic to test with the interface, or another interface to test your mic with?

Are you recording on a laptop?
Is there any possibility that the recording is being made from the built in microphone by mistake?
Sounds stupid, but it has happened before.
Click to expand...

The amp is quite loud. 18 watt '63 Ampeg Reverborocket with a Vintage 30 speaker, volume at 8. LPB1 preamp in front to crunch it up a bit. The Shure is authentic, I checked that. I also have a Sennheiser guitar mic that I also used in place of the SM57. It's levels are fine. Recording on a tower PC, no internal mics. Given the discrepancy in levels using the same cable & same input device, I'm beginning to believe that the SM57 needs to be sent back to Shure for repair. Wanted to be sure I wasn't going to send it for repair & get it back with "no trouble found" since I am getting some signal. Getting signal, just not strong enough. That's why I wanted to know if anybody else was having gain issues on an SM57 into FsP & was using preamps.

I'm just going to go ahead & send that SM57 in to Shure. Thanks for your help.
 
JKZ001 said:
The amp is quite loud. 18 watt '63 Ampeg Reverborocket with a Vintage 30 speaker, volume at 8. LPB1 preamp in front to crunch it up a bit. The Shure is authentic, I checked that. I also have a Sennheiser guitar mic that I also used in place of the SM57. It's levels are fine. Recording on a tower PC, no internal mics. Given the discrepancy in levels using the same cable & same input device, I'm beginning to believe that the SM57 needs to be sent back to Shure for repair. Wanted to be sure I wasn't going to send it for repair & get it back with "no trouble found" since I am getting some signal. Getting signal, just not strong enough. That's why I wanted to know if anybody else was having gain issues on an SM57 into FsP & was using preamps.

I'm just going to go ahead & send that SM57 in to Shure. Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

The sm57 may have a slightly lower output than your other mic by design, but definitely not to the extent that you're seeing.
I'd put my money on the 57 being faulty.

You can do a few things to satisfy yourself of that first, although the info you gave is pretty conclusive to me.
Do you have a multimeter? Unplug the mic and test for resistance between pins 1+2, then 1+3.

If you don't have a meter, or if the readings are odd, remove the grub screw and carefully pull the XLR pins out of the bottom of the mic. Don't yank them!

I'm thinking maybe one of the wires (pin 2 or 3) has come loose.
It's unlikely to be a loose wire at the capsule end because then you'd have no signal at all.

If it's new or under warranty, or you aren't comfortable doing this kind of stuff, you make the decision. Don't take it apart on my say so. ;)
Hope that's useful.
 
It makes no sense at all that it would distort with levels hitting so low, even with the gain at max. Distortion comes when the gain multiplied by the signal equals too much for the circuit to pass, and that can't possibly happen at -20db on any sane interface.

What happens if you add gain in the box rather than on the FireStudio itself? Add some sort of gain plugin if you have to and crank it up till you can hear it, but it's not near 0dbfs. Does it sound distorted now? Then the mic is fucked!

Is this one of those interfaces where Presonus sticks their own fancy mixer control bullshit between the drivers and the DAW? I hate that! There might be something in there set screwey.

But really, since it works with one mic, it should work reasonably well with the other.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Is this one of those interfaces where Presonus sticks their own fancy mixer control bullshit between the drivers and the DAW? I hate that! There might be something in there set screwey.
Click to expand...

Nah, presonus stay out of your way.
They have a mixer suite for direct monitoring but they don't interfere with the signal to DAW.
 
The SM57 is already on it's way back to Shure for repair. Dropped it off at the post office this afternoon. As far as the LED's on the FsP, even with the gain knob at full travel, you can barely even get the green (bottom) LED to light no less the yellow or red. The issue is definitely the SM57. The Sennheiser seems to work fine with no gain issues, I'd just rather use a working SM57 if I can.

Thanks for the replies everyone. :)
 
Problem solved. Sent the SM57 back to Shure for repair for $55. Took a week and they simply replaced it with a new one. All works well now.

Thanks everyone.....

JKZ001
 
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