"Sitting" vocals?

M

mindwave_21

New member
Hey all, I've got a question about vocal recording for you. My main problem is getting the vocal to "sit" well in the mix. For some reason, whenever I try to bring the vocals down a bit by raising volume of other tracks, the vocals just seem to sit the same, but less audibly. In other words, it doesn't sit any better, but just sounds like it's reduced in volume (does that even make sense?). I've tried to pan sounds away so there's a more defined stereo image, tried vocal compression and level reduction.

I'm guessing there are recording techniques I can take advantage of before I post-process, so here's the question: what recording techniques do you use when recording the vocal mix? That is, how loud do you make the initial recording (gain-wise) in comparison to the rest of the tracks, how far away is the mic, how loud do you sing (I know it depends on the song, but in general are you singing full volume or holding back a little?), what effects are you using (compressor, limiter, etc.).

Right now I'm using an Oktava MK-319 and a pop filter. I just put the mic about nose level upside-down with the pop-filter about 3 or 4 inches from the front of the capsule, and I sing anywhere from 4-6 inches from the mic. No compressor or limiter, just straight to a DMP3 to an Audigy. Then, I just use a compressor and reverb plug-in for the final product. I typically find that the vocals are either overpowering in the mix, or they just disappear to the back. I have a soundclick account that you can hear some examples of what I'm talking about. Songs that the vocals are too loud in are JMC, Dissolve; songs in which vocals don't sit well or are too soft are Drinking Song, Jenny's Song.

Thanks in advance! I can clarify if you need any other information.
 
Try some different reverb settings. When used properly, reverb can do exactly what you are wanting to do with your vocals.
 
it should not matter how loud or soft you record the vocals initially; you should be able to reasonably adjust the levels later. record at a level that gives the vocalist a good headphone message.

what can influence how well the vocals sit in the mix is the congruence of vocal with the rest of the track. Consider the feel of the vocal with the rest of the music. Consider the distance from the vocal mike and the effect that this has on directness.

EQ, compression and reverb are all ways in which you can find both a place in the mix for the vocals and a level at which to place it. It is possible to overdo all of these so that it never sits well (I know from experience). A judicious use of compression will increase the range of mixing possibilities.
 
I'm just a home recorder, and I am really crappy at mixing, but since this was an acoustic track and pretty sparse (which is what I do quite a bit), I thought that I'd chime in.

It sounds like you record your acoustic pretty far off the guitar for a nice open tone (and it sounds good...mp3 quality considered), so the vocals seem to have more dynamics and than the guitar. So heavier on the compression might be what you are looking for on the vocals to even the dynamics. Or recording farther away from the vocal mic.

I like this tune, by the way. And I think that your sound is really good. With some tinkering, I'm sure that you'll figure this out.
 
Everyone has pretty much covered it.

Try to use mic positioning to your advantage. Getting really close to the mic, like the 4-6 inches you are describing, will give more of an intimate, whispering in your ear, vibe. Back off to 1-2 feet to let a little more room into the mic and place the vocal a bit further back (it helps to have a good sounding tracking room to pull this off). Experiment with different horizontal and vertical angles for the mic (off-axis) to find different sounds and minimize/emphasize various characteristics.

I have a tendency to track with some compression (FMR RNC or RNLA), with the settings dictated by the tune (Ratio ranging from 1.5:1 to 6:1) and 4-8dB gain reduction during the loudest parts of the song. However, I wouldn't necessarily recommend that unless you know exactly what you are looking for, soundwise, and know how to get that with the compressor.

At mixing, I tend to roll off the lows of all vocal tracks below 80-100Hz (higher for background vox). Adjust the volume of the vocal track in small (0.5dB) incremets until you have it about where you want it. Depending on how well I did during tracking, I may have to apply a de-esser. Everything else is pretty subjective.

Eq- try making some EQ cuts in your backing tracks (no more than 2-3dB, usually) in the range your vocal is mostly occupying during that song. Sometimes I'll add a little high frequency "air" to a vocal, but I try to avoid additive EQ most of the time.

Compression - your tracks sound plenty compressed, so I don't think that is your problem. Compression (with makeup gain) tends to smooth out differences between the louder and quieter portions, so the track volume is more consistent. Too much compression and every breath and lip smack will be obscenely loud. Also, you can just "ride the fader," turning the vocal up when it's quiet and down when it's too loud (this can be automated in most software).

Reverb/Delay - time/space effects will help a vocal sit a little further back, which can be a good thing. As a general rule, the reverb should match the mood of the tune. A bigger (hall, cathedral) reverb will often work best for a ballad. Smaller (room, club) reverbs may work better for upbeat tunes. Your vocals sound pretty dry from a reverb standpoint, so you may want to experiment with that. Try picking a big, lush verb, but only send a small portion (10%) of the vocal to the effect. Send your backing tracks to the same or similar verb to put all the pieces in a single sonic space (again, be gentle). That may give you what you are looking for. Also, a short delay can work in lieu of reverb.

Panning - Pan the instruments that occupy a similar frequency range (esp guitars) out of the middle to make room for the vocal.
 
Thanks for all the great responses! Look forward to trying them out. Any other suggestions/comments welcome.

Thanks!

edit: special thanks to scrubs for all the categorization and details :D . I'll come up with questions about it later I'm sure...just kinda busy with other crap at the moment.
 
You got some pretty good advice here. I'll just give you a link to a pretty cool tecnique that I've used with success. I'm not trying to give you a magic bullet solution, because it really is about good tracking, eq-ing, compressing, etc...But this should help also. The whole article is good, but you'll find the 4th paragraph "The Motown 1960's Exciting compressor" especially interesting.

THE EXCITING COMPESSOR
 
RAMI said:
You got some pretty good advice here. I'll just give you a link to a pretty cool tecnique that I've used with success. I'm not trying to give you a magic bullet solution, because it really is about good tracking, eq-ing, compressing, etc...But this should help also. The whole article is good, but you'll find the 4th paragraph "The Motown 1960's Exciting compressor" especially interesting.

THE EXCITING COMPESSOR
Click to expand...

Cool link! I've heard of people doing this type of thing with Dolby A units....i'm gonna try it next mix...

Peaceout,
Mike
 
I checked out The Drinking Song and as I listened to it each individual element sounded good. The sounds just don't mesh together yet. The first response by thajeremy was right on. More specifically though, work on EQing the snare drum. If you notice, every time it hits right with the vocal, the vocal gets masked. You could pull down the volume of the snare but you'd lose the intensity and 'in your face' of it. Gently EQ some of it out so that the vocal sits with it better. Try a Parametric EQ and cut freqs around 1.5k to 3k and see if that doesn't help. Think of a piece of tongue & groove flooring. If the groove wasn't there, the tongue wouldn't fit and there'd be gaps in the finished floor. Same concept here. Scrub mentioned riding the vocal and that is a HUGE part of it. You can't just set the fader level on the vocal and leave it. You've got to sit on that fader and ride it like your favorite girl to get every nuance out of the performance. Compress to enhance, not just because that's what everybody says to do. You've got to know what you're trying to acheive when compressing something.
One other thing, turn your monitors all the way down during playback, then turn them up until you just barely, barely hear the mix. What's the first sound you hear? Is that what you expected/wanted to hear? Turn them up another notch and see what comes into view (sonically) next. You wouldn't want to mix at this level but it does give you a good indication of what's loudest in the track.

Mike
 
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