Singing while playing vs Tracking

P

polarity

New member
I have recorded myself quite a bit at this point and so far it's all been by tracking. I'm not very good at guitar so I'm definitely not good at singing and playing at the same time. The other day I started recording a cover of "make you feel my love" the Bob Dylan tune that was covered by Adele (then 50 million other people, then me). I first did it upstairs in the studio as usual. Stereo mic the guitar, then track the vocals. I have been toying with the idea of making videos so I decided to hop downstairs and just see what happened. So I jumped in the garage, put the iphone on a box and hit record. To me, the singing in the video while I was playing was WAY better than the singing in the recording.

So the question is, do you feel you sing better when you are playing? Is there a reason? I was guessing it's because of the tone of the guitar and just being able to match it better when it's live (recorded it definitely sounds different then when I am playing it).

Edited to add: Here are links to the video and mp3 in question. I'd love your opinions.

Video: http://www.steenaudio.com/mov.MOV (thank you steeno for hosting it)
Mp3: View attachment FML.mp3
 
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I think the problem for me is, I end up listening to myself and overly focused on my singing rather than listening to the guitar and singing. I seem to have the same issue or, I just can't sing and it doesn't sound as bad when I play. Not sure which.
 
polarity said:
I have recorded myself quite a bit at this point and so far it's all been by tracking. I'm not very good at guitar so I'm definitely not good at singing and playing at the same time.
Click to expand...

With respect I think this is misleading and if people take it as fact the answers won't fit. You're better than you think, pal. ;)

polarity said:
So the question is, do you feel you sing better when you are playing? Is there a reason? I was guessing it's because of the tone of the guitar and just being able to match it better when it's live (recorded it definitely sounds different then when I am playing it).
Click to expand...

Just saw your PM and was about to write back when I saw this.
I've worked both ways myself and when recording other people.

I almost always record Pete's guitar then vocals later just because he's a decent singer but his best performance isn't likely to come out in a live style recording. Also, the nature of his songs and mixes really calls for me to have full control over a dry separated vocal track, you know?

On the other hand I recorded a guy not too long ago who is just a pure live talent. Not that Pete isn't good live but this guy just has an incredible voice and it works in proportion to the volume of the guitar. His voice is strong and confident, and he has a great awareness of the balance.
Miking him up live was definitely the thing to do.

Obviously your hands are tied to some extend with that kind of setup. Pete's vocals would be disproportionately quiet and I'd raise the vocal track. Then the guitar bleed would sound weird against the guitar tracks.
This wasn't a problem with the other lad.


Bottom line? Try it both ways and see what fits.
In terms of performance basics, I think you're good enough to do it either way. :)
 
Thanks steeno, yeah in this particular case I wasn't really bashing either of them but in listening back I feel like the vocal on the "live" was better. I actually thought it was ok in both.. I'm trying to find a way to upload them both here but the .mov doesn't work.. I will work that out shortly.

The quality on the "studio" version was obviously better
 
polarity said:
The quality on the "studio" version was obviously better
Click to expand...

Oh, of course. The video just used the internal camera microphone, right?
It'd be interesting to hear what you'd come up with if you had a close stereo pair on the guitar and a dynamic mic up in your face.

Tip: Try the guitar mics just below chin height about a foot or 18" way pointing downwards across the guitar body.
I did some comparisons between this ^ and guitar level on axis. Results were surprising!

I can host the mov for you short term, if you like.
 
Yeah if you dont mind throwing it up somewhere. Drop the mp3 I sent you in also please and I'm curious what others think.

To me the singing in the video sounded much better, but I'd love to get some opinions.

As always, you're awesome man. thanks!
 
I'm not a guitarist but I've recorded a lot of them. Here are several reasons why playing while singing is better. One: it's a comfort thing. If you're used to playing while singing, dropping the guitar makes you feel uncomfortable. Two: The voice and the guitar are linked in your memory banks. Without the guitar vibrations traveling through your fingers and arms, your voice feels adrift. Three: You wrote, learned and rehearsed the song with the guitar. Without it, again, you feel lost. Some examples: One guitarist writes while playing chunk a chunk and once with the whole band can't stop playing chunk a chunk. The two are linked. Another didn't know what to do with their hands and body without the guitar and just couldn't sing at all. Another, while tracking the guitar, could not think of the chords without the female singer. We brought her in, she stood in front of him and mouthed the words. He nailed it. I hope that helps.
Rod Norman
Engineer
 
Rod Norman said:
One: it's a comfort thing. If you're used to playing while singing, dropping the guitar makes you feel uncomfortable.

Two: The voice and the guitar are linked in your memory banks. Without the guitar vibrations traveling through your fingers and arms, your voice feels adrift.

Three: You wrote, learned and rehearsed the song with the guitar.
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Two and three may or may not be true.
Not trying to be awkward, but they wouldn't be true for me.

The lad Pete I mentioned would fit these guidelines but he still performs much better separately. I don't know why that is.
The other guy I referenced, the real live talent, he'd certainly fit your criteria.
 
Rod Norman said:
I'm not a guitarist but I've recorded a lot of them. Here are several reasons why playing while singing is better. One: it's a comfort thing. If you're used to playing while singing, dropping the guitar makes you feel uncomfortable. Two: The voice and the guitar are linked in your memory banks. Without the guitar vibrations traveling through your fingers and arms, your voice feels adrift. Three: You wrote, learned and rehearsed the song with the guitar. Without it, again, you feel lost. Some examples: One guitarist writes while playing chunk a chunk and once with the whole band can't stop playing chunk a chunk. The two are linked. Another didn't know what to do with their hands and body without the guitar and just couldn't sing at all. Another, while tracking the guitar, could not think of the chords without the female singer. We brought her in, she stood in front of him and mouthed the words. He nailed it. I hope that helps.
Rod Norman
Engineer
Click to expand...

Bada - Bing!! 100% nailed it. Think of asking Joe Cocker to sing without playing air guitar. Just his hands at his side. He could do it but he might feel out of sorts and the performance might suffer compared to him just doing his thing. There's a physical connection for many people who play an instrument and sing.
 
I consider myself a bad singer (although surprisely I am getting better). Since I am not a great guitarist too, I prefer to focus on one thing a time. I just sing/play together when I am recording for documentation purposes (eg, I am composing a new song and don't want to forget the details). When I am recording for real I prefer to track then I can concentrate on the both thing separately. Obviously some people deal with it easily. I have a big issue with doing different things at the same time. For instances I absolutelly cannot sing and strum a complex rhythm at the same time (read as 'complex' something simple as a reggae rhythm). I simply have no idea how drummers can do four different things at the same time! LoL!
 
YanKleber said:
I have a big issue with doing different things at the same time. For instances I absolutelly cannot sing and strum a complex rhythm at the same time (read as 'complex' something simple as a reggae rhythm). I simply have no idea how drummers can do four different things at the same time! LoL!
Click to expand...

I get that. It really pisses me off.
I'm not even sure it's something I could learn or improve upon. I've just always struggled.

Pat your head and rub your stomach, my friend. ;)
 
I think you might have been right, I just didn't sing it as good on the "studio" take as I can.

Going to redo that now.

I tried recording it live and it wasn't bad or any worse, but the guitar playing was definitely worse. Good test though. And I have to keep working on that if I'm going to sing/play live anyway.

thanks

Steenamaroo said:
Oh, of course. The video just used the internal camera microphone, right?
It'd be interesting to hear what you'd come up with if you had a close stereo pair on the guitar and a dynamic mic up in your face.

Tip: Try the guitar mics just below chin height about a foot or 18" way pointing downwards across the guitar body.
I did some comparisons between this ^ and guitar level on axis. Results were surprising!

I can host the mov for you short term, if you like.
Click to expand...
 
polarity said:
I think you might have been right, I just didn't sing it as good on the "studio" take as I can.

Going to redo that now.

I tried recording it live and it wasn't bad or any worse, but the guitar playing was definitely worse. Good test though. And I have to keep working on that if I'm going to sing/play live anyway.

thanks
Click to expand...

Cool man. It's always nice to try these things out for yourself.
The bottom line is comfort. If the performance suffers it's no good.

Hey, try out that mic position on the guitars regardless of how yo proceed. Would be interesting to see what you think. :)
 
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