singers opinions...?

S

SEDstar

Active member
I'm not a singer, at ALL, I just write music (normally)

I'm trying to write lyrics, because i ran across a young lady singer that really sounds sorta like Sarah Brightman a little... her parents (both music pros) burned her out on music when younger...

so, she's TRAINED, but... not doing ANYthing...

naturally, I am trying to take advantage of this gem I ran across... anyways, heres my question to you singers...

if someone who cant sing, writes lyrics, and has to get the "basic idea" across to the singer, so they can run with it... is it okay for the lyric writer to sing horribly off key, just to get the idea across? Can a good trained singer "work" with that so they get the idea of "how it goes" and stuff?

is this a normal "technique" to get a singer started?

I figure once she gets the idea what I hear in my head, I told her she can write her own "lead sheet" once I like the sound of it...

the girl said she can tell me what notes she is singing, so i can try to craft the music for it, heh heh, *instrument voice*, hee hee. I figure, whatEVER her favorite key is? well, THATS what key the song goes in, you know?
 
Not sure where to start, here- I see a couple of red flags popping up, but let's address the positive, first.

(Thinking, thinking...)

Okay, I can't find any positives, and really, I tried. I don't mean to tear into you, but I feel these things really must be said:

If she's burned out on music and/or singing, you are not doing her any favors dragging her, kicking and screaming, back into it. If it is a passion for her, she will return to it, in time. The artist does not create because she wants to, she creates because she must.

Your use of the phrase "trying to take advantage" troubles me. Impossible for me to tell, from your post, what you really mean, but if it is exploitation, I can not, in good conscious, support that.

Of course there are techniques to get singers moving, used by educators, directors and conductors, but the starting point is a singer who is not only trained, but also intrinsically motivated. There is also a very good, universally recognized "technique" for communicating the idea in your head, to a singer. It's called standard notation. If you don't already use that "technique," the best advise I can offer is for you to learn how.

Chances are, this young woman probably has more than enough chops to help you get your ideas down on paper, in standard notation. The reality is, if she turns you down, it would probably be for very good reason. If I were her father, uncle, former professor, etc. I would tell her to make damn sure she has a SIGNED CONTRACT with you, to protect her rights. You are asking her to be, in essence, your co-writer, and she deserves equal credit (see "Lerner and Lowe," "Rogers and Hammerstein," "Elton John and Bernie Taupin.")

And, finally, if she's got the chops I suspect she has, she should easily be able to turn your off-key, tone-deaf "singing" into a real song, and she can likely sing and write in just about ANY key. I am not sure if you mean that she should sing in the key you "hear" the song in, in your head, or that the song "goes in" whatever key she wants to sing it in. What I do suspect is that you are not well-versed in music theory, whereas I'd bet my last dollar she is. Say whatever you will (or maybe not you, but you can bet it will rear it's ugly head) about musical theorist not being musicians, or similar such self-serving, self-deluding crap- the truth is, this young woman has skills you need. You'd better be nice to her!

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I have seen this before, and it can get ugly, real fast. Please, don't be "that guy."
 
From the info in your original post, stevieb is assuming way too much, and ranted undeservingly.

She may be burned out, but it doesn't mean that her flame can't be re-lit. That's up to her, and if she is willing to try and ignite it with you, it's unfair of anyone to judge you for it. She's not gonna get pulled into something kicking and screaming if she's that dead set against it. You may be just the spark she needs to get back into it.

I presume that "taking advantage" was meant to be about the situation itself, rather than of the girl. If this is true, I see no problem in it as I'm positive she's not going to meet with some random musician if she's not really up for collaborating in any fashion. Let's give the girl the credit to think freely for herself.

Now.... to answer your questions. I have written for a few singers, but can also sing, so it goes pretty easy. However, there has been a few times where the melody has been hard for the singer to grasp, so I've turned to the piano or guitar to convey the notes because the syllables of the words get in the way of the note changes. I don't see why you won't be able to do your best at singing the melody as you supplement it with a guitar or piano. She can hear the phrasing from you singing and the actual pitch (if that is your achilles heel), from the instrument. She can then adjust the key to fit her range, and you then transpose your chord arrangement to match. Easy.

I don't support the condescending "advice" about learning standard notation. You don't need to learn standard notation to work with another musician who may or may not have been theory trained. A little music theory always goes a long way, but there are plenty of work arounds out there and not knowing standard notation does not make you less of a musician (I'd argue that the ear is the most important thing), but it is a limiter.

Definitely, have a talk upfront about what the intended outcome of the collaboration is going to be, and discuss giving credit where credit is due. I do agree with stevieb on this. This can be an awkward part to collaborating with someone you don't know that well, so have the discussion first to avoid any problems later.

One last thing... just because it irks me.
Say whatever you will (or maybe not you, but you can bet it will rear it's ugly head) about musical theorist not being musicians, or similar such self-serving, self-deluding crap- the truth is
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REALLY? awfully aggressive for the first response to new thread.

SEDstar, I hope this helps.

Ryan
 
Okay, Ryan, I will support your right to disagree with me, but I don't think I am being overly harsh. It could come down to a different "reading" of the OP, but I don't think so. Consider:

SEDstar writes "I am trying to take advantage of this gem I ran across..." To me, that refers to the person, not the situation. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, ("Impossible for me to tell, from your post, what you really mean...") and said that IF he was hoping to exploit her, I could not support that.

Standard notation is a pretty-much universal way of communicating musical ideas- the most universally convenient way to get the idea across. Your statement "A little music theory always goes a long way, but there are plenty of work arounds out there and not knowing standard notation does not make you less of a musician (I'd argue that the ear is the most important thing), but it (not knowing standard notation) is a limiter," leads me to believe you and I are not as far apart as you might think. (I learned just last weekend that Pavarotti does not sight-read- he learns the music by listening to recordings.) I was certainly not being condescending- perhaps putting in the bold type implied that. Sorry, not my intent. Again, I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt- "If you don't already use (SN)..." I will admit, if this young woman is as skilled as SEDstar implies she is, chances are she can take up the slack from him not knowing standard notation. But I still think he should learn to read SN, if he does not already know how. That is a skill that will serve him (or anyone who is a musician) well.

As for the statement that put a burr under your blanket, there are some here (and elsewhere) who seem to take pleasure in claiming that "real" musicians don't "need" to know such mundane things as SN or theory ( I am not implying that I think you feel that way.) Chances are, they will come into this thread, spouting their crap like it's the Gospel. The real drive behind that kind of thinking is usually a fear of being thought inferior, hidden behind a mask of bravado. I don't think SEDstar thinks that, either, and tried to say so- but those people will get here, sooner or later. I don't have to name names- you will know them by the stink that follows them.

Ryan, please keep in mind, I see nothing wrong with SEDstar's desire to collaborate with this young woman- only that they way he expresses some of his ideas suggest to me that he could be using a destructive path to get there. He may well not even realize it, until it is too late. If he comes back on this thread, saying "Oh, goodness, no, I wouldn't want to exploit her talent, I just hate to see it go to waste," I will take that as truth.

So, how 'bout it, SEDstar? What say you?
 
Okay, Ryan, I will support your right to disagree with me, but I don't think I am being overly harsh. It could come down to a different "reading" of the OP, but I don't think so.
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First off, I'd like to commend you on not getting worked up about my previous post. Your response, was very respectful.

I think it may be a difference in how we each read the intent of "taking advantage." I don't think it's taking a big leap to give the OP the benefit of the doubt by assuming it means purely to take advantage of meeting a skilled singer. Could it have been a poor choice of words? Absolutely, but I don't have any reason to believe that SEDstar has any ill-intent based on anything else he's written in the original post, therefore I prefer to think positively, and do my best to help him with his question. Shouldn't making a judgement occur only after all the facts have been laid out? By all means, we should be free to question his intent if concerned, but I don't think 1 post on the subject contains enough info for negative assumptions.

Next, why engage with narrow-minds about the importance of music theory? For the record, I have had my share of music theory training, but I also have a good ear that I rely heavily on. Point being, music theory isn't a necessity to make music or convey it. I think knowledge (in all forms, including musical theory) is a very powerful thing and to disregard that, is absolutely ridiculous. Would I argue that point with someone that doesn't share the same view? What's the use.... it's obviously already an argument that can't be won.

Ryan, please keep in mind, I see nothing wrong with SEDstar's desire to collaborate with this young woman- only that they way he expresses some of his ideas suggest to me that he could be using a destructive path to get there. He may well not even realize it, until it is too late. If he comes back on this thread, saying "Oh, goodness, no, I wouldn't want to exploit her talent, I just hate to see it go to waste," I will take that as truth.

So, how 'bout it, SEDstar? What say you?
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I like this approach much better!! :)

Cheers,
Ryan
 
oh, for the love of the sacred christ, lmFao...

well then, please let me readdress your concerns, sir... since your concerns are so LEGION, you will kindly allow me to quote them... (god, I'd lose TRACK, hee hee)

CONCERN:"Not sure where to start, here- I see a couple of red flags popping up, but let's address the positive, first.
(Thinking, thinking...)
Okay, I can't find any positives, and really, I tried. I don't mean to tear into you, but I feel these things really must be said:"

ANSWER: "wow.", that all I can say, is, "wow". Can you say "paranoid pessimist?" ANything I said, thet could in any way possible, be remotely possibly misconstrued, and made to seem as worse as POSSIBLE, you did... trying to be "positive" about your negativity and paranoid outlook on the human race? okay, okay, I TRIED to find anything positve about it... oops, I CANT be positive about your view of thed world (PS - just having some quid pro quo fun with you, eh? ha ha...) for the record? anything I say that can be taken a good way and a bad way? I meant it the "good way" if I dont raise my voice, mmmkay? (not to self: this must be a LAWYER? my old lady is a lawyer, this would make more sense...lol)
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CONCERN:"If she's burned out on music and/or singing, you are not doing her any favors dragging her, kicking and screaming, back into it. If it is a passion for her, she will return to it, in time. The artist does not create because she wants to, she creates because she must."

ANSWER: no one is dragging anyone, kicking/screaming/or otherwise.... my buddy was excited to accidentally find someone that "knew something" about music to "judge me" on my CDs I bring him of my classical compositions (he is a gifted sculptor, as well as drawing and illustrating? She can sing... and knows "something" from both her parents?), where I could rather trust her "judgement" where I am education wise with theory... I was curious how I "stack up" from listenign to my CD, as far as where she would "guess" how much education I had gone thru to be able to make what I did... me and my buddy had trouble convincing her I didnt have a formal education in music; she said from what she heard, if it was one of the many CDs that crossed her fathers study room desk she hears, she would have guessed I was either just finishing up a bachelors in music, or had done so, or was trying now to get into a graduate program for composition... (wink) she kinda gushed... THEN she sang for me, and my "jaw dropped open" and was flabbergasted... I'm 43, my buddy is 28, and she's 23... I havent heard ANYone in real life sing like THAT since I dated a girl in college that was takikng vocal lessons for opera-type singing... this is "sh!tsplat, Pennsylvania" and neither of us is used to running across anyone that can read sheet music, LMAO, let alone knows anything about theory, ha ha ha...
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CONCERN:Your use of the phrase "trying to take advantage" troubles me. Impossible for me to tell, from your post, what you really mean, but if it is exploitation, I can not, in good conscious, support that.

ANSWER: Perhaps now that I know you thru your post-modern pessimism? (sorry, lol) my words were poorly chosen. By "take advantage" I simply mean to say, this lady has serious trained talent, and I cant previously find a singer locally that can read sheet, knows theory, nada... judging by MY experience, about once every 20 YEARS I accidentally run across a talented, trained singer, LMAO... everyone wants to get drunk at the bar, and scream into a shure SM57, or rap... and all the guitarists and singers think that multitracking and music theory keeps you from "being real, man..." here, takign advantage simply means the planets have lined up in syzygy again 20 years later, and I know this wont happen again until I am SIXTY-three, ha ha...
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CONCERN:Of course there are techniques to get singers moving, used by educators, directors and conductors, but the starting point is a singer who is not only trained, but also intrinsically motivated.

ANSWER: uh uh, she ENJOYS singing, its not a motivation thing... she just cant stand being constantly nitpicked over by a overconcerned mother, who was never happy... she said it was like having a father that was a football coach, nothing was ever good enough, LMAO. I told her she can do anything she WANTS, and can change words and phrases, pick keys, ANYthing... and I was sure I would not "nitpick" with her results, heh heh... (this made her smile and be happy about it, hee hee) i told her I would expect HER to change thinsg aroun to suit herself... (my theory is to let the plumbers do the plumbing, since I aint a singer)
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CONCERN: There is also a very good, universally recognized "technique" for communicating the idea in your head, to a singer. It's called standard notation. If you don't already use that "technique," the best advise I can offer is for you to learn how.

ANSWER: gee, really? (yah, I taught myself to read sheet music, I just never played a pitched instrument before, lol) around HERE in shitt-splat... the recognized "technique" is you put words on paper, then strum random major and minor chords and hum... and write the chord letters over the words, lmFao... which is, or course, hardly what I have in mind, you know? lol... ANYways, I sort of hear "Laura Branigan" in my head singing any love ballad lyrics, but, since I dont have "perfect pitch" I have no idea what key "Laura" is singing in, much less what "notes" she is hitting at any point in time... lmFao (if that makes any sense...) plus, I know singers have ranges and keys, and often a song must be RE-written to take advantage of the singers talents, and just figured it would be bright of me to let HER pick the key and chord structure she PREFERS right from the get go, then I can attempt to compose some classical-ish and avoid a major headache later on... as luck would have it, my "favorite" scale is "pentatonic minor", and she loves pent minor... you see, she likes my composing classical music on my computer, and I love hearing her sing like Sara Brightman (I have Phantom of the Opera CDs? hee hee) each of us wants to try to figure out a way to "make use of" the other...
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CONCERN:"Chances are, this young woman probably has more than enough chops to help you get your ideas down on paper, in standard notation."

ANSWER: great! if you werent so paranoid, "yes, this actually IS a great idea, maybe, if the 2 of you can pull it off!" would have sufficed, ha ha ha. (sorry, just having fun with you. Lighten up...) i can compose classical on my computer, and I do a sort of "slightly classical pop" ditties too... she can sing her @$$ off... we just need lyrics. I typically cant "songwrite" just compose instrumentals, SHE cant write music, but... we both agree we want a "bittersweet, etheral/haunting" sounding lyrics for her to sing. SO far, the "best idea so far" has been for my buddies sister (who plays no instruments at all...) well, she writes lyrics, which iis to say, "bad poetry while smoking pot", and me and the singer, well, neither of us thinks THIS is the way to go for a lyricist, lmFao...
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CONCERN:" The reality is, if she turns you down, it would probably be for very good reason. If I were her father, uncle, former professor, etc. I would tell her to make damn sure she has a SIGNED CONTRACT with you, to protect her rights. You are asking her to be, in essence, your co-writer, and she deserves equal credit (see "Lerner and Lowe," "Rogers and Hammerstein," "Elton John and Bernie Taupin.")

ANSWER: i told her, even though she didnt ask, the "object of the exercise", was thus: I make classical compositions, but dont know SQUAT about how to even TRY to apply it, and plus I am in schitt-splatt, Pennsylvania, further complicating matters. her mother and father seem to have taught her sh!tloads about singing classical choir, but, much like me, she knows nothing about anything but singing. She cant even write music really, nor lyrics either, she admits freely... she just concentrated on hitting the notes given TO her extremely properly... anyways, the "object of the exercise" was for us to each obtain a "cool demo" we both would like to have to show anyone. I get composer/music writing credits, SHE gets vocals... unless a "real" recording engineer, studio, and mixer and post production team beams down for free from a far away planet? (unlikely...) I have to record her and mix a rough demo. I once wanted to learn the rank basics of multitracking and mixing on my computer, so... i recorded a young singer/songwriter... then gave him the final 3-song-demo CD... the strength of which landed him a paying gig fronting a popular local band for the last 10 years, lol. EACH of us gets what we crave... a "real product" that has our names all over it, to "prove" we should be doing what we are doing... which is next to impossible in a small town, lol. ( I am not good at recording or mixing, but... a rough demo is light years ahead of everyne stading around a boom-box in a bathroom and pressing the "record" button, you know?)
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CONCERN:"And, finally, if she's got the chops I suspect she has, she should easily be able to turn your off-key, tone-deaf "singing" into a real song, and she can likely sing and write in just about ANY key."

ANSWER: uhh, most cool. My heart leaps like a gazelle ! Honestly, I live in a burned out steel town, surrounded by illiterate, drunken chipanzees. I have only heard "think of me" from Phantom of the Opera, sung reasonably correctly live in front of me (other than the phantom concert, obviusly, lol) , "twice" in my 43 years of life... the LAST time was dating a young aspiring opera singer in college when I was in my early twenties... I might well be DEAD before I hear it again, lol... if I never hear one more teenage "chorus class" girl BUST into hammerstein at the top of her lungs, horribly, I will pass over into the hereafter a happy man, lmFao...
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CONCERN:"I am not sure if you mean that she should sing in the key you "hear" the song in, in your head, or that the song "goes in" whatever key she wants to sing it in."

ANSWER: The latter, not the former, sir... the singer in my head? I dont sing at all, and I dont hear specific notes, as I dont have perfect pitch...but I DO get words, timing, pace... where to "gravelization" for guttural emphasis, where to get soft... where theres a sudden surprising "leap" you dont expect up in pitch... etc etc, but I dont get "notes" in my head with this mental imaginary performance? if she can get the (very) rough idea how the song "goes", I figured let her pick key, cadences (chord structure, lol), and to hit whatever specific notes end up sounding pleasing to us when shes singing, etc etc... all the danged "singer songwriters" around here? They think in terms of strummed chords assigned to lyrics they write... I think in terms of NOTE melodies, not "chords"... and SHE understands this... LMAO (do you have ANY idea what its like being the only straight redneck in a burned out steel town, that listens to laura branigan, phantom of teh opera, (as well as queensryche and slayer, ha ha ha)????? my neighbors and friends think I have gone "quite insane" because I am into classical music theory and composition, lmFao... they fear for my sanity, hee hee. the phrase "the natives emerge to greet us", comes to mind, eh? PS - i was a drummer when young, but have never played any pitched instrument. My drum teacher though, while I didnt learn any pitch, used sheet music... time signatures, repeats, rests, note durations, you name it... I only had to figure out how to assign "pitch" to which key on the piano, then which fret corresponded to which key on the piano, when 6 or 7 years ago, I woke up one day and decided to teach myself music theory, lol...
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CONCERN:"What I do suspect is that you are not well-versed in music theory, whereas I'd bet my last dollar she is. Say whatever you will (or maybe not you, but you can bet it will rear it's ugly head) about musical theorist not being musicians, or similar such self-serving, self-deluding crap- the truth is, this young woman has skills you need. You'd better be nice to her!"

ANSWER: really? thats fair (but, its kinda the exact reverse of the way you see it)... lets try it this way... I agree to send you a 2 song demo of ME, of 2 compositions I wrote from scratch, recorded, mixed, etc... then YOU tell ME if I know anything about music theory. *shrugs* thats fair, aint it? one is a short, 2-minute classical acoustic number... the second is a full-on orchestral piece, multi-movement arrangement... give me NINE MINUTES OF YOUR TIME (2 minutes + 7 minutes...) then, if you want to throw cat feces at me, I swear I wont say a WORD about it... non-musicians who dont know me, I typically then have trouble getting them to BELIEVE that I created it, lol...
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CONCERN:"Sorry if I sound harsh, but I have seen this before, and it can get ugly, real fast. Please, don't be "that guy." "

ANSWER: like I said when I tapped your face with my litle white glove, "do not entirely take me for a wig, sir". Give me my nine minutes, then YOU can tell ME, you seem to be the expert... I am merely an out of work pizza driver (but I once was a well respected software engineer who wrote his own 2-pass compiler, by myself in my spare time, from scratch, lmFao...)

I already passed her "theory quiz" with flying colors, because she refused to believe "me" made the 2 trax I proffered her, LMAO...

I have 2 university degrees in math and computer science, my wife has 4 university degrees (2 math/comp sci degrees, a teaching certification, and a juris doctor in corporate law, and the little ladies "committee of something or other" shes a executive director of, confirmed the last superior court judge my state needed, lol.)

"Scheiser...Nein!, Das ist mein bruder! Dankershein (sp?)"

"Ustedes Tienes pescas michas? Me Hablan Inglais muy bien, y, "un poco de" Espanol, eh...?"

"mi una fue... testarossa?"

"shee - a - shee" (can only pronounce it, cant spell it, lol)

Though I have no degree in THAT either, I typically have to accidentally find an EE to discuss electronics, lol...

Yes, i am self taught in music theory, but... I only understand it "mathematicaly", IE, its rather like "set theory" to me...

I dont think you are "harsh", I just want those 9 minutes of you... pick up the white glove, and you make the call... I'm not really sure who "that guy" is? unless he's got a hint of a polymath in him... *shrugs* Please excuse ME for seeming harsh, sir... my apologies. come on, you KNOW your just DYING to find out... then you can poke all the fun you want, and I wont say a word...

PS - my "try at lyrics" seemed better last night to me when I was up all night, and I thouht I might have "had it" (I am no lyricist, nor songwriter...) but, the PLANETS have lined up again briefly... and me and her only lack the right lyrics, then I can "produce" what I think might be a quality "rough demo CD" for us...
 
sorry... I was composing (pun intended, ha ha) my response, and after I posted it, I found out there was sa flurry of replies before I got it posted...

I know real professional "singers" uee a lead sheet... I guess thats standard notation? I always assumed theperson writing the lyrics for a choir put sheet music on paper for the choir singers, just like sheet music for a piano... and the singer was expected to use their voice like a piano keyboard... but thats just my best guess... my knowledge of singing fits into a THIMBLE with much room left over, lol...

PS - just for the record, I'm on the "music theory" side... not the other side... until I learned some music theory on my own, I couldnt write ANY music, lol... because I never sang nor played a pitched instrument... after several years teaching myself to compose a little bit, my "ear" has kind of "trained itself" all on its own, a little bit, lol...

as far as transposing any music I try to write? It weird... if I transpose a big classical number? It can go from "sorta looming and heavy" in the riginal key, then after transposition, it might sound "like a picnic in the roaring 20s, on a summer day", its, like, REAL weird....

if i get lucky and get off a decent music piece, transposing it might ruin the whole mood of the thing...

I mean, yeah... if your just hummin and strummin like a lot of songwriters do around here, you can transpose into any key you FEEL like it... but I cant hop around with a classical piece like that, the whole MOOD changes because of all the instrumentation...

if I can get lucky and nail a scaled back classical piece, and she can sing over it (actually vice versa, lol) and we get the "haunting,, bittersweet, etheral" sound we both want to get... I am LUCKY to hit the "mood" I need, I cant transpose it, it might sound like circus music if I transpose it, LMAO...

plus I cant put cadence (chord structure) to words, I;m not a real songwriter... I figure if she sings it, and it sounds okay acapella... SHE can tell ME what key its in, and where/what the chord changes are, so I can try to get a "cadence" off of it and get into "lock step" with her...

I hope this is clearer than "mud", since I'm 100% self taught, and my knowledge is "patchy" as a result... yet, i would suggest listenign to my 2 track "demo songs" I have... then you can decide if I know any music theory or not... *shrugs*
 
SEDstar said:
if someone who cant sing, writes lyrics, and has to get the "basic idea" across to the singer, so they can run with it... is it okay for the lyric writer to sing horribly off key, just to get the idea across? Can a good trained singer "work" with that so they get the idea of "how it goes" and stuff?

is this a normal "technique" to get a singer started?

I figure once she gets the idea what I hear in my head, I told her she can write her own "lead sheet" once I like the sound of it...

the girl said she can tell me what notes she is singing, so i can try to craft the music for it, heh heh, *instrument voice*, hee hee. I figure, whatEVER her favorite key is? well, THATS what key the song goes in, you know?
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Yup, it's fine.

I have people who come in to record. Many of them are not natural harmony singers . .. they are used to singing a melody and that's all.

So if I want them to do a harmony I have to resort to a number of techniques:

1 sing the harmony part in my own chook-like falsetto until they get the idea

2 pick out the notes on a piano so they can follow along.

Occasionally, they are readers, so I can print of a score of the harmony line.

I'm interested to see how you get on . . . it would be good to hear some of your tunes sung.
 
Well, SEDstar, your reply certainly made me laugh, more than once or twice. No need to personally send me a couple of your songs, posting them here would probably be better. You posted plenty for the both of us, so I won't belabor the points, just will say- okay, you made your point well, and with humor. I understand much better now, and am sorry if I stepped on your toes (doesn't sound like I did, though.)

Sounds like you are well on track, and respectful of the young woman you hope to work with.

Oh, and ryguy76, I am usually respectful of others, even those who disagree with me. When they get disrespectful, I tend to respond, in-kind.

And, I am happy to make the aquaintence of you, both.
 
*whew!*

for a minute there, I thought i actually had to send him one of my lame pieces, that was a CLOSE one...

hey... I'm not typing this, am I? oh, sh!t...

man, there HAS to be something I dont "get" about writing lyrics... I have got to be makin this harder than it really is...

I just cant picture why I can write half decent instrumentals, and cant put lyrics to it, so that when I run across a singer like this, I can just hand them the thing...

I have got to be making lyrics harder than it probably is, or I am missing something, some key basic element...

oh well... the planets will line up in another 20 years... maybe if I quit smoking, and start jogging, I can still be alive for THAT one, maybe...

for all I love theory, and it was the only thing that got me going? There's an inner part of me thats secretly jealous I watch 15 year old kids sit around, smoke pot, doodle lyrics and hum and strum random chords, and plop a few chord letters above a couple words... and everyone applauds it when they play it and tells them they are geniuses... *shakes head sadly*

I cant get THEM to write good lyrics for short classical-ish ditties, because *thats lame, dude*, ha ha (maybe it is, maybe it is... lol)

okay, I'm tired guys... I'm gonna check my "pampers" and go to sleep.... I'm done crying about it, lol
 
I would try playing/recording midi of your "proposed" melody on a keyboard to the best of your ability. Give her a midi file in 10 different keys so she can pick the most comfortable one.
 
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