Simulating studio monitors

R

RockinShawnM

New member
Hello,
I hope this isn't a stupid question.
I am doing some home recording and cannot, at this time, afford studio monitors.
I do have decent stage monitors that I have the schematics for.
Why can't I put a 31 band stereo eq between my four track and the power amp powering the monitors and adjust the eq to compensate for the tone coloration of the monitors?
This may be a more credible solution when considering that I use an sr16 drum machine for drums and a POD for recording bass and guitar. So there isn't any miking of amps to listen closely to and tweak mic placement.
Still, I want an accurate representation of what's going to tape, especially when it comes to nuances of guitar and vocal tone.

Any ideas?
Thanks

RockinShawn@aol.com
 
There is more to monitors than just tone coloration. They also cause distortion and phasing and stufflike that. Things the EQ will also cause.

For example, if your monitors bass response is dismal, no matter how much you crank that EQ up, you will get no bass, just distortion.

Two wrongs does not make a right... (but three lefts will).
 
The problem with doing that is the phase anomalies that you will introduce using the EQ to "compensate" for the room deficiencies. So although you "fix" the room's frequency-response issues, you now are adding new phase-related frequency response problems - so you haven't really fixed anything, just changed the nature of the problem....

Forget the EQ route - the only practical way to make use of the stage monitors is learn their shortcomings and adjust for them in your mix. (ie, exactly what people do when they mix on NS-10s or other response-impaired monitors!)

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
simulating studio monitors, followup question

OK. I understand so far.
Next question; How "flat" does flat have to be.
My Sunn monitors have an eq curve as follows:
-4db at 15khz curving up to +4db at 5khz, flat at 1.5khz, +2db at 1khz, pretty much flat until 150hz, -5db at 60hz, -14db at 30hz, -20db at 20hz.
All in all pretty flat until the bass droppoff at about 100hz.
So, obviously trial and error is necessary. But, how much flatter will a real monitor be? If, as you say, I'm constantly aware of the limitations of the speakers, ie limited bass response, and just eq accordingly might that be good enough.
Here's a technical question; Considering the Flesher-Munson curve, at what lesser volume level am I not going to hear frequencies below 100hz anyway? I play in a basement but the wife and 3 year old daughter are always here, so, much as I'd like to CRANK IT, alas, often I cannot.

Thanks for your time and expertise,
Shawn
RockinShawn@aol.com
 
It's not being of of specific frequency problems in your monitor that's important - it's being aware of what the response is IN THE LISTENING ROOM that's key. Play back a commercial CD of what you consider a "good" recording to be - how does it sound thru your monitors?? (if it's bass-shy and mid-heavy, then when you mix you need to adjust the tone of your mix so that it is also bass-shy and mid heavy.)

While it can help you pinpoint (especially problematic) areas by knowing the specific response anomalies of your monitors, what's more important is learning how to translate your mixes (simply by listening...) The measured response of your monitors means very little if your control room/listening area causes phase/reflection issues.

By the way, typical listening levels for mixing is fairly relaxed - about 85 db.... many times even quieter than that...

Hope this helps... :)
Bruce
 
BVALERIA

we have to have a talk.

I know you must have had a very bad experience with ns10 ms( if they made you lose a wife, take heart. Women are not that great anyhow.Just soft and nice to touch).:)

But what is the problem with ns10ms. Is it that you cannt hear something or do they sound too bright or what what exactly is it.?

I myself have not heard another pair of studio monitors except those huge ones, the monitor 2 by Alesis, which sound nice and translate like crap.

And if I remember correctly, they did not sound much better than the 10ms.

so please educate me as to why exactly ns10 ms are pieces of---doorstops.
 
CJ.................

Ahhh........ the NS-10s.... over-rated, misunderstood, most-photographed monitor in the world....... How does everyone's favorite phrase go? Oh yeah - "...*EVERY* studio in the world uses them, so they MUST be good..." :eek: Yikes........

OK, here's the deal - the NS-10s have boomy bass, muddy-but-heavy mids and a high-end that is somehow screechy and dull sounding at the same time. I've tried them and found them EXTREMELY fatiguing to listen to and I've never gotten used to mixing on them. That being said, many people can and do use them, and get decent mixes on them - obviously, only after having learned to mix around the NS-10's shortcomings.

Really, my biggest beef about them is their unmerited "mystique" that kinda suckers engineering novices into thinking that they are better than they actually are and that you can't mix without 'em. The truth is there are much better monitors out there to cut your engineering teeth on - especially at their price range.... it's much better to learn recording using decent gear up-front rather than trying to learn engineering AND working around a monitors shortcomings at the same time.

Bruce
 
thanks BV,

yes, they have to be the most photographed monitors in the world. the latest issue of billboard had them in two of three studio pictures .

I agree that they are not the best monitors in the world. Most people who use them now use them as a second reference.

anyhow, I now see why you don't like them. When I get me some money I will get a pair of 20/20s . But right now, sonusman was just talking about keyboard bass sounding like crap so I have to check into getting a bass, or atleast finding a fix( I knew the bass was suspect)

rock on.
 
original design

wasn't ns-10s originally design to come with and extra subwoofer? thats what i was told but no one bought the extra sub. i think you could learn to mixing around anything but i also agree that theres many others in the same price range to start on like the tannoy protege ps for 200.00 for the pair. just a thought.
 
Hey RockinShawnM

You don't have to hang around here too long before you realize that you have to get good monitors, or at least save your multitracks so you can remix them when you do get good monitors, thats what i'm doing. You've gotta have a glove if your gonna play baseball.
 
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