Shoping list

C

Chris Jahn

New member
not the best forum for this maybe, but its the one that gets the most intelligent responces.

My boss is a millionaire, straight up he has money. hes 54, loves music and want to do something differnt as a business. probably jsut a big mid life crisis. so i was haveing a converstation with him about my "hobbie" and to make a long story short, he wants to open a studio with me in new york. I will just manage it, as im not exactly ready to be a head engineer (but maybe with time in this business venture i can get to that level).

So im looking for a shopping list, basically if you had this oportunity, what would you buy to open a full DIGITAL studio (no tape yet) from scratch, send me your list with prices and reasons for your choices.

I mean everything, mics, boards, outboard gear, software, preamps etc..., think quality, but think budget to, i want to give him a list of gear that is realistic but not gazillions (trying to avoid complete sticker shock).

Just gear, not construction, not space, just gear.

this should be fun
 
Chris Jahn said:
I mean everything, mics, boards, outboard gear, software, preamps etc..., think quality, but think budget to, i want to give him a list of gear that is realistic but not gazillions (trying to avoid complete sticker shock).
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Step #1, aim high. Rich people rarely respect business plans that aim low. They can always cut your budget and ask you to re-do the list cheaper, but rarely will they take a small one seriously enough to say "make it bigger". Plus, the last thing this world needs is just another run-of-the-mill studio, especially in NY, where the competition will be fierce

Step #2, The number one thing you'll need will be a good lead engineer. Not only because - by your own estimation and honesty - you're not yet ready for that role yet yourself, but because you'll want a name that will do three things: 1) bring initial new customers in on reputation or resume alone, 2) do the job right/well enough to bring them back a second time, and - if you're lucky - 3) already have some GOB (good ol' boy) network connections to bring a client or two with him from wherever you find him (or her).

Step #3, ask that engineer the question you're asking us. What monitors does he prefer? What boards does he (or she) prefer? Etc.

Step #4, based upon the info you gather from #2 and #3, work up a *business plan*. Not just an equipment list; he won't give a shit whether you pick NS10s or Tannoy Elipses. If you can justify the cost by showing how the revenue will cover costs and make a profit, the more attractive the business plan; that's what he'll be interested in, and won't care about the difference between the two McGuffins.

None of this means that you inflate the budget either. You still want to get a good deal and not pad the budget; the smaller the cost the faster one can turn a profit. Go quality, go big; just do it lean and mean.

And let him know how your doing it. Let him know that you found a cherry $40K desk for $8K on eBay but you gotta jump on it before it's gone, and not only will you have a commitment from him before he changes his mind, but he'll be impressed that you are saving him $32K right out of the gate and will be more likely to trust your game plan form there on.

G.
 
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Not bad advice, but it kinda seems like your suggesting that i find an engineer first, i would think 1-piece of property,2-construction budget,3-gear, then employees, cuz you cant really hire people for a studio that does not exist yet. and my boss want numbers on all that, not just gear, but as a novice i want to give him a budget that i cant create without help from people who know gear better than i do.

your right, he could care less, and knows nothing about monitors, mics and everything else, but hes relying on me to get the right stuff, so im researching what i really takes in that department. And then really just supply him with a nice found figure at the end. this forum is of course not the only place im looking for info, its just an opinion among many opinions and FACTS i need to put together.
 
Chris Jahn said:
Not bad advice, but it kinda seems like your suggesting that i find an engineer first, i would think 1-piece of property,2-construction budget,3-gear, then employees, cuz you cant really hire people for a studio that does not exist yet.
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Well, yeah, you make a good point, Chris. It does kind of break both ways.

I guess the way I'm coming at it is that a) the engineer is more important than the gear, that b) you might be able to - as they would say in Hollywood - "attach" a good engineer to the project by letting them have input into the gear selection. Rather like being able to attach a leading actor to a movie by being able to promise them a director and/or a production value that they want to work with, and that c) if you can tell your boss that you can get Joe Grammy to nest in his studio and bring in X amount of business by his rep alone, the price tag for the rest will taste much more palatable to him. You tell a producer that you can get Tom Cruise to star in your movie, your producer will be much more willing to spend $100M on the movie than if you pitch it without having him attached.

But, I do know that what you're really looking for is hardware advice. Here's a quick thumbnail of the kind of target I'd look at:

- Analog board, 24channels of input minimum, with halfway decent preamps, preferably a decent rep on it's on-board EQ, multiple aux busses, plenty of direct outs, and 8 submix busses. Check used from Blevins Audio or similar places for something classic *and properly refurbished* for your best bang for the buck. If you have to/want to buy new, check out the boards from Toft Designs.

- Monitors. A VERY personal choice, but without that personal option, I'd say, don't go stingy. A pair of Tannoy Elipses are expensive but can pay for themselves in both quality and gear list status and attract good engineers. Might be tough to find used because they are so new and popular, but by getting deals elsewhere you can easily make room in the budget for the most important piece of gear you have to buy (after engineer and acoustics).

- Gold channels. At least two channels of top-shelf preamp above and beyond what's in your mixer. UA, GML, Manley, etc.. Expect to pay a couple thousand dollars right there, but this is what will put your tracking quality into the pro class (with good mics, of course.)

- Microphones. Buy used where possible to get the most bang for your buck in the budget, especially on the high-end ones. For the published equipment list, just to show some bling to the customer, you'll probably want at least one Neumann condenser, but you can fill in some high quality at lesser prices with a nice AEA ribbon and a Mojave Audio condenser for less than the price of a top-shelf Neumann. Also, fill your locker with a Sennheiser 441 or a couple of 421s, and an Ev RE20 or Shure SM7 or two. finish up with a decent kick mic (D112 or better yet, Senheiser E602), and either a couple of mid-range condensers from AT or some pencils from Earthworks. Stay away from the ultra-cheap Chinese condensers.

- At least 8 channels of *quality* conversion. Benchmark, Apogee, etc. Digi *if* you plan on going Pro Tools.

- I'll leave the rest alone for now other than to remind you to include the things everybody always forgets in their budgets: patch bays, headphones, headphone distribution amp(s), snakes, cables and stands.

G.
 
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Chris Jahn said:
not the best forum for this maybe, but its the one that gets the most intelligent responces.

My boss is a millionaire, straight up he has money. hes 54, loves music and want to do something differnt as a business. probably jsut a big mid life crisis. so i was haveing a converstation with him about my "hobbie" and to make a long story short, he wants to open a studio with me in new york. I will just manage it, as im not exactly ready to be a head engineer (but maybe with time in this business venture i can get to that level).

So im looking for a shopping list, basically if you had this oportunity, what would you buy to open a full DIGITAL studio (no tape yet) from scratch, send me your list with prices and reasons for your choices.

I mean everything, mics, boards, outboard gear, software, preamps etc..., think quality, but think budget to, i want to give him a list of gear that is realistic but not gazillions (trying to avoid complete sticker shock).

Just gear, not construction, not space, just gear.

this should be fun
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2 RADAR Nyquist HD recorders = 48 tracks of the best digital going
1 48 channel (min) mixing desk = (Amek Neve 9098i) used.
8 outboard pre-amps. and an API lunchbox fully loaded
8 great mics with at least 2 U87 (buy older ones from 1967-1984)
Adam A7 monitors (or equiv)
4000 ft Mogami cable
8 compressors
2 buss compressors
1 2 channel mixdown analog recorder
500W (Min) power amp (for monitors)
2-3 sets of small speaxers (Radio Shack etc.) for testing mixes.
10 sets of headphones (MoreMe recommended)

Good Starting Point.
 
Nightfire said:
If you want to stick with in the box, you might want to look into big control surface consoles, such as these http://www.sweetwater.com/c549--Pro_Tools_Control_Surfaces (only IF you plan to go with Pro Tools)
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I second that. If you're going all digital, as you indicate, you'll probably need to go Pro Tools or go home. Not that there isn't other great software, but as SSGlen mentioned "bling for your customer", the customer is going to expect a Pro Tools rig in a digital studio.

I've also been impressed with the new TASCAM digital consoles, such as the 4800 monster http://www.tascam.com/details;8,9,37.html They're part digital mixer, part control surface; decent pre's. There's a local studio here in Kansas City that uses one of these, and it sounds really nice. They're also half the cost of the C24 surfaces (C24 surfaces are really slick, though!)

Also want to think about buying the mother of all computers to handle a LOT of tracks, plugins, etc. Think Mac Pro / Quad-core Xeon with 16 GB RAM and multiple hard drives: $7k http://www.apple.com Probably add an X-Serve unit for data backup: another $3k.
 
A Pro Tools HD rig with good converters and depending on how much money, an SSL, API or Neve board. If he isn't willing to shell out for one of those consoles, there's lots or middle priced options. The biggest cost is going to be building proper rooms and studio design if done properly.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
You tell a producer that you can get Tom Cruise to star in your movie, your producer will be much more willing to spend $100M on the movie than if you pitch it without having him attached
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Nobody wants Tom Cruise these days. He lost his contract because he's an embarrassment and a liability :p
 
legionserial said:
Nobody wants Tom Cruise these days. He lost his contract because he's an embarrassment and a liability :p
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OK, I admit, I don't read the Hollywood Reporter :p. Replace the sofa jumper with Will Smith, then.

I still believe that's a major point that Chris will need to address sooner than later. A well-equipped studio is useless without a well-equipped engineer or a well-connected manager. And even if you can talk a few "guest" engineers to try out the place, they won't come back if the resident AE makes things harder and not easier for them.

And Chris shouldn't think that his boss isn't going to do at least a little homework himself - or have someone look into it a little for him. Not as far as gear, they won't care much about those geek details. But about the actual running a business end of it. That will include determining the marketplace, the size and shape of the competition, and what separates the successes from the failures. He'll need that info in order to evaluate if Chris' business plan is realistic or not.

And some of the main questions he'll ask are, "Why should artists come to our studio and not one of the hundred others in New York? Is it that there's more demand for studio space and time than there is supply? Or is it because we'll be able to offer something special in a competitive market?" Once he finds out - either from Chris or from someone else - that big box studios are on the decline, that home/self-recording studios are on the increase, and that the big-box ones that still succeed do so because of their staff and reputation more than anything else, then it would be nice to be ready with an engineer and sales staff to drop on him.

G.
 
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