Sharp/Flat Vocals: What's the deal?

T

Trippalot

New member
I'm not sure what forum this would go under, but here goes. If I could put up with every little nuance that was wrong with my recordings except for one thing, it would be this: My vocals usually end up slightly sharp or slightly flat in various places in the songs. It occurs most of the time on the attack and many times simply holding a note. Probably not noticeable to the average listener, but it irritates the HELL out of me. I, and most of my friends, consider myself to be a pretty good vocalist. I've studied various techniques for breathing and have mastered the skill of keeping the larynx low for maximum projection. I'm not a stranger to vocal lessons either. Timbre and resonance are good. Just for some reason, that's what happens on the vocals. Is there anything I can do as far as technique on the vocals? Do most professional artists not have this problem on commercial CDs because they have the money to doctor it up a little in the studio, or am I really that bad?? This causes quite a problem when working on harmony parts, too. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx.

Tripp
 
How are you monitoring the backing tracks while recording?..If its too loud you may be oversinging.....also, if you should get a dry feed of the vocal(less any effects) in your headphones as reverb may throw off your perception of pitch....

Now its time for someone who knows what the hell they are talking about to answer this....
 
A good way to sing along with music is to have 1 ear open to the room and the other with the headphone on so U can hear both worlds at the same time. I find this helps A LOT........ when U sing, it never sounds the same through the phones. Plus your hearing your voice through the mic opposed to knowing how it sounds to yourself.... U know what I mean, the whole "Your voice sounds different when you hear it off a recording then it does in your head when U hear yourself singing" thing...... heheh I'm useless at descriptions...........

Sabith
 
Sabith: Good call. I'll have to try that.

Gidge & c7sus: I've learned that recording vocals dry is the best way to go as far as performance is concerned. It also makes me feel a little better to know that autotunes are so common. I don't have the money for one, but now I know at least that some of these singers may not be as good as they sound like they are. But what are you getting at as far as monitoring is concerned? I'm not sure I follow.

Tripp
 
Originally posted by Gidge
you should get a dry feed of the vocal(less any effects) in your headphones as reverb may throw off your perception of pitch....

I have heard it the opposite way around, that some reverb makes it easier to stay in pitch. And it used to be like that for me. Haven't tried it without for a couple of years (and I'm a much better singer now).
 
c7sus said:
yeah...... Autotunes are pretty standard procedure today not only in studios but especially on the road. When people are paying 100 bucks they don't want to hear Celine or Mariah or whoever hit alot of wolftones.
Click to expand...

man that was classic. had me laughing there.. haha! true statement though.
 
regebro said:
Originally posted by Gidge
you should get a dry feed of the vocal(less any effects) in your headphones as reverb may throw off your perception of pitch....

I have heard it the opposite way around, that some reverb makes it easier to stay in pitch. And it used to be like that for me. Haven't tried it without for a couple of years (and I'm a much better singer now).
Click to expand...

Miracles DO happen!!!

I happen to agree with regebro on this one. Most singers seem to perform a whole lot better in the studio with a little reverd, or even a well timed delay in their headphone mix.

The advice about only monitoring the headphones with one ear is a hit and miss. It MAY work for you, it may not. Certainly do try. When I work with a vocalist that has a hard time hearing themselves in the "cans", I encourage them to take one side off, and usually, but not always, that helps them a bit. But every singer I have to do that with, I have 2 or 3 others who sing just fine with both sides of the headphones on.

Another little trick I have picked up from some very good singers I have worked with:

Tighten your stomache right before you attack your first note after an intake breath. This will keep you from releasing too much air right away, which means more air for sustained notes, but it also will tame dynamic jumps while you are singing. I have that happen a lot with less experienced singers that the very first word out of their mouth is like 10db hotter then the rest! Ouch!!! Even experienced studio singers need reminding from time to time about tightening the stomache.

It is too bad that the expectation in music is for perfection. Making AutoTune a "standard" is a disgrace really.

Oh, I have heard Mariah sing without a mic, and can assure you that she don't need AutoTune. That woman has about as perfect intonation as I have every heard!

Ed
 
Trippalot said:
I've studied various techniques for breathing and have mastered the skill of keeping the larynx low for maximum projection. I'm not a stranger to vocal lessons either.
Tripp
Click to expand...

I have a friend who was trained as a classical singer and actually won competitions when still in his early teens. Years later in his twenties after not singing for a long time he formed a rock band, his vocals were horrible because he would be constantly out of key. As it turns out he would focus all his attention on his breathing and his larynx and his diaphragm and his posture and all these other technique things, he would get so caught up in singing 'correctly' that he would forget to pay attention to the other instruments and his key would drift.

I'm not saying that this is what's happening with you but it is a valuable lesson for anyone.
 
sonusman said:

Another little trick I have picked up from some very good singers I have worked with:

Tighten your stomache right before you attack your first note after an intake breath. This will keep you from releasing too much air right away, which means more air for sustained notes, but it also will tame dynamic jumps while you are singing. I have that happen a lot with less experienced singers that the very first word out of their mouth is like 10db hotter then the rest! Ouch!!! Even experienced studio singers need reminding from time to time about tightening the stomache.
Ed
Click to expand...

The muscel your actually tightening is called the diaphram, and the reason you use your diaphram when singing is to keep the airflow steady. So, when you sing those long notes the airflow will stay the same and the pitch you started singing will hold till the end of that long note.

"Well, I'm no psychacoustical expert or anything, but the sound you hear when you sing is very different
than what others hear or is recorded. When singing (or talking for that matter) you not only hear the sound produced through your hearing but the sound also resonates through your sinuses and bone structures of your head into your ears as well. So you sound different to yourself than you do to others."

and C7sus, thats exactly what I was trying to say I just couldn't remember why..... maybe I was asleep that class ;)

Sabith
 
Heres something that has worked for singers Ive worked with: record the vocal melody with keyboard or guitar and have the singer sing along with it while doing takes. That also helps if theres a key change that the singer isnt used to which he/she goes flat on.
 
its magic

punch-in the offending areas.

I also heard that if the phones are too loud, one naturally tends to sing flat.
reducing the level of the phones should help
 
What its gonna come down to is what works for him....I just tried to reply with some things that might work in his case, not necessarily what usually works for most people or what anybody thinks is "the Best way" to do it..

The idea is to help him, not to be the one with the right answer, because more often than not, there really arent any .....
 
some more input....

Dude, I've had singers that sang slightly flat or sharp at times.... to get them to realize they were doing this (without recording and playing them back) was to hook thier mic up to my tuner and have them sing to my tuned guitar.... and they could see that they were just slightly off. What you hear isn't what other people hear, and even recorded versions don't always sound right, esp. when you're listening to yourself via headphones while recording...

I have dealt with the same situation. I'd practice while recording myself, playback and observe..... it was an eye opener. Stuff that sounded "good" while recording just sounded like crap later.

And alot of people use autotunes, and poping in to redo a alot of individual words is pretty much standard. In a live situation it wouldn't be as apparant but when listening to a recording it's imediately noticeable.

Anyway, I'm taking alot of words to just say "practice doing those parts over and over using the recording setup as your guide".
 
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