Send Level and Bus Volume

[BLP]

What is the difference between Send Level and Bus Volume?


When I set my Send Level on each track to 0 and my Bus Volume to 0 everything is overly loud.


I'm using VOCAL BUSes basically.


I want to take 8 vocal tracks and send them to a bus with compression,echo and reverb but when I do this I set the bus volume to 0 and the send level on each vocal track to 0 and it seems that it gets twice the volume in sound?


Should I be adjusting my Send Level or Bus Volume to get an even sound? I'm currently lowering my bus volume to even it out.

 

[Massive Master]

You need to read up on the proper uses of sends vs. groups...

 

[Farview]

Here is where you might be going wrong:

You should be routing the output of the vocal channels to a buss, not using a send. When you use a send, the output of the channel still gets routed to the master AND where you routed the send to go. So now you have the vocal going to the master and the vocal group (which is routed to the master) so you have just doubled your signal.

What you need to do is route the vocal channels to a group buss (sub group, what ever it's called in your daw) and insert a compressor on that group. Then, set up an effects buss (channel) and insert the effects on that. Then, using a send from the group buss send the vocals to the effects. Actually, I would set up two effects busses, one for the reverb and the other for the delay. That way you can control each individually.

Set the effects to 100% wet and adjust the amount with the effects buss fader.

Group busses are for doing things like volume control, EQ, compression, and other dynamics effects that you don't want to mix the dry signal with.

Sends are for things like delay, reverb, etc... that you add to the dry signal.

 

[BLP]

Thank You. I was trying to figure out why the volume got twice as loud. From reading other threads in search I thought you was suppose to send the channel to the bus? So I would take "Send 1" in each channel and send it to "Bus A" , then put the "Send 1" Level at 0 and adjust volume by lowering the gain on "Bus A". I must of been doing something wrong.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Thank You. I was trying to figure out why the volume got twice as loud. From reading other threads in search I thought you was suppose to send the channel to the bus? So I would take "Send 1" in each channel and send it to "Bus A" , then put the "Send 1" Level at 0 and adjust volume by lowering the gain on "Bus A". I must of been doing something wrong.

What DAW are you using?

In Pro Tools mix groups and effects loops are generic and use the same facilities, but vary in the way they're set up.

A bus is generally set up by assigning the channel output to the bus and assigning the bus to the main mix. The channels thus assigned only go through the submix group bus to get the master bus (exception: parallel compression). Eq, dynamics etc. may be inserted on the bus, and volume may be adjusted or automated. These are series effects as the signal only goes through them.

An effects loop is set up by assigning sends to a bus. The bus will have some sort of effect like reverb, delay etc. which will be set to 100% wet. The bus output is assigned back to the master fader or to a submix bus. These are called parallel effects as there is a second path with the output added back to the mix.

I like to use a separate effects loop for vocal effects, even if they are the same as what I'm using on other tracks, because I can assign them back to the vocal mix bus and control them as a unit.

You're not "supposed" to use buses. They are there if you need or want them to process groups together.

 

[Farview]

Thank You. I was trying to figure out why the volume got twice as loud. From reading other threads in search I thought you was suppose to send the channel to the bus? So I would take "Send 1" in each channel and send it to "Bus A" , then put the "Send 1" Level at 0 and adjust volume by lowering the gain on "Bus A". I must of been doing something wrong.

You just misunderstood what they meant by 'send'. You need to route the output of the channel to the group buss. You use the aux send (which is what the send on the channel is) to send signal to the effects busses.

 

[BLP]

You just misunderstood what they meant by 'send'. You need to route the output of the channel to the group buss. You use the aux send (which is what the send on the channel is) to send signal to the effects busses.

Yes thank you help me understand better.


But now I'm putting the Dynamic Processor/echo/reverb chain effects directly on the "BUS" after I routed the channels to it through output.


It works I think.


But what you saying is I should make a new channel and put my effect chain on it then use the send on that effects channel to send it to my bus?

 

[BLP]

What DAW are you using?

In Pro Tools mix groups and effects loops are generic and use the same facilities, but vary in the way they're set up.

A bus is generally set up by assigning the channel output to the bus and assigning the bus to the main mix. The channels thus assigned only go through the submix group bus to get the master bus (exception: parallel compression). Eq, dynamics etc. may be inserted on the bus, and volume may be adjusted or automated. These are series effects as the signal only goes through them.

An effects loop is set up by assigning sends to a bus. The bus will have some sort of effect like reverb, delay etc. which will be set to 100% wet. The bus output is assigned back to the master fader or to a submix bus. These are called parallel effects as there is a second path with the output added back to the mix.

I like to use a separate effects loop for vocal effects, even if they are the same as what I'm using on other tracks, because I can assign them back to the vocal mix bus and control them as a unit.

You're not "supposed" to use buses. They are there if you need or want them to process groups together.

I am using Adobe Audition 3

 

[Farview]

But what you saying is I should make a new channel and put my effect chain on it then use the send on that effects channel to send it to my bus?

All DAWs work the same, but they don't always call things by the same name. That is what is confusing you. I don't know audition, so what I am calling things and what they are called in your software aren't necessarily the same thing.


You need three different things:

1. the channel with the audio on it
2. a group buss, sub buss, group channel, etc... what ever they call it in your software. They are all the same thing
3. an effects buss, effects channel, what ever they call it in your software. They are all the same thing.


In order to use compression or EQ on multiple channels at once, like when you want to compress the drums together as a whole instead of individually, you would route the output of each channel you want to be in that group to a group buss (channel, what ever) and insert a compressor on the group buss.

In order to do time based effects, like reverb or delay, you need to create an effects buss (channel, whatever) and use the aux send on the individual channels to feed the effects buss.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Yes thank you help me understand better.


But now I'm putting the Dynamic Processor/echo/reverb chain effects directly on the "BUS" after I routed the channels to it through output.


It works I think.


But what you saying is I should make a new channel and put my effect chain on it then use the send on that effects channel to send it to my bus?

Put eq and dynamics on channel inserts and/or submix group buses. Put reverb and delay on a parallel effects loop. You go "through" eq and compression. You "send" signal to reverb and delay and add it back to the mix.

Mixing for a while on an analog mixing console with it's more limited routing options would make this stuff obvious. I think people who start mixing on a DAW are skipping a crucial step in learning signal routing and having a hard time getting their heads around some really basic stuff, like trying to ride a motorcycle with all the shifting and stuff without first learning to ride a bicycle.

 

[CFox]

What is the difference between Send Level and Bus Volume?


When I set my Send Level on each track to 0 and my Bus Volume to 0 everything is overly loud.


I'm using VOCAL BUSes basically.


I want to take 8 vocal tracks and send them to a bus with compression,echo and reverb but when I do this I set the bus volume to 0 and the send level on each vocal track to 0 and it seems that it gets twice the volume in sound?


Should I be adjusting my Send Level or Bus Volume to get an even sound? I'm currently lowering my bus volume to even it out.

Ahh, you are using bussing. Ok ditch Adobe and get Reaper. You may scoff now but you wont once you start using it. Sends and Receives are easy as pie.