(semi) Hollowbodies, laminate/carved?

[daav]

Question about semi hollowbodies, basically 335 body styles, from those who know best. i have a japanese 335 knock off with some upgraded hardware that i really like, am thinking that someday i might invest in a real quality hollowbody, maybe a true 335, an elitist or vintage casino, etc.

1. For this kind of instrument, what is the expected difference between laminated and carved body parts?

2. Are these guitars even done with non-laminate options?

I think since i am in love with p90s, that i would be looking at something with that if i made the leap, what are you favs? The elistist casino is probably what i am leaning toward checking out, the epi Zephyr looks cool too.

I owuld probably be looking used at 1000-1300 tops, definately interested in cheaper if I found something with the tone and that felt great.


Daav

 

[Hard2Hear]

Casinos and 335's are all laminates. To get carved tops, you're looking at the bigger bodied jazz guitars with mostly spruce tops.

 

[muttley600]

Question about semi hollowbodies, basically 335 body styles, from those who know best. i have a japanese 335 knock off with some upgraded hardware that i really like, am thinking that someday i might invest in a real quality hollowbody, maybe a true 335, an elitist or vintage casino, etc.

1. For this kind of instrument, what is the expected difference between laminated and carved body parts?

2. Are these guitars even done with non-laminate options?

I think since i am in love with p90s, that i would be looking at something with that if i made the leap, what are you favs? The elistist casino is probably what i am leaning toward checking out, the epi Zephyr looks cool too.

I owuld probably be looking used at 1000-1300 tops, definately interested in cheaper if I found something with the tone and that felt great.


Daav

There are a ton of guy's making archtops that are non laminate. I'm one of them. The first question you'd really have to ask yourself is what sound your after and in what environment you are going to be playing it, what sort of music and style? That will really dictate you choice.

 

[Gear_Junky]

others are welcome to disagree, but i really think that if you simply upgrade your pickups (and if your current guitar plays well) - that might be all you need.

i doubt that many (if any) production semis are made of carved (solid) woods - i think most (if not all) semis and full-hollow electrics are plywoods. even the high-end gretsches. so that in itself shouldn't be a reason to upgrade (again, if your current guitar plays/sounds good).

on the other hand, i think casinos are not semi-hollows, i think they're hollow-body, like gretsches. that would mean a somewhat different sound, which might be "it" for you. certainly a more pronounced difference than ply vs. solidwood (electric semi/hollow).

Now, I'm sure that solid-top electric archtops do exist, but i'm not sure every guitarist would be able to appreciate the difference (as long as pickups are good).

 

[muttley600]

others are welcome to disagree, but i really think that if you simply upgrade your pickups (and if your current guitar plays well) - that might be all you need.

Possibly correct thats why the first decision is what style and environment.

i doubt that many (if any) production semis are made of carved (solid) woods - i think most (if not all) semis and full-hollow electrics are plywoods. even the high-end gretsches. so that in itself shouldn't be a reason to upgrade (again, if your current guitar plays/sounds good).

There are some but not in that price bracket. There is nothing wrong with a laminate top (they are not plywood, but thats semantic) theyjust have a different possibly less subtle tone.

Now, I'm sure that solid-top electric archtops do exist, but i'm not sure every guitarist would be able to appreciate the difference (as long as pickups are good).

Oh you can tell the difference all right once you get your hands on a good one.

 

[daav]

Thanks guys, especially Muttley.

The one i have has classic '57s in there as an upgrade and i think it sounds great. Looking forward to test driving some real Gibson 335's to compare, but this guitar makes me pretty happy as is.


Style of music is clean to blues crunch to really messy dirty garage style stuff. No metal, and no jazz box tones really (although this guitar does usually sound pretty nice clean, I am sure a jazz player wouldn't hate it at least).

The main question i had was whether there was as distinct a difference between these semi holowbodys laminate and carved as we see with solid tops vs laminate on acoustics. Sounds like most stuff is laminate so i don't have a categorical hurdle here.

Since i do like the current humbucker guitar, i think then i might shop around for one of the casinos for the P90 tone.

Thanks gentlemen!

Daav

 

[pohaku]

Gibson does make some production guitars with carved spruce tops, the Super 400, L5 and Byrdland I think, but they are way out of the OP's price bracket, even used. I have a Byrdland and a ES335 and they do indeed sound different. And it's more than just the pickups.

 

[muttley600]

Thanks guys, especially Muttley.

The one i have has classic '57s in there as an upgrade and i think it sounds great. Looking forward to test driving some real Gibson 335's to compare, but this guitar makes me pretty happy as is.


Style of music is clean to blues crunch to really messy dirty garage style stuff. No metal, and no jazz box tones really (although this guitar does usually sound pretty nice clean, I am sure a jazz player wouldn't hate it at least).

The main question i had was whether there was as distinct a difference between these semi holowbodys laminate and carved as we see with solid tops vs laminate on acoustics. Sounds like most stuff is laminate so i don't have a categorical hurdle here.

Since i do like the current humbucker guitar, i think then i might shop around for one of the casinos for the P90 tone.

Thanks gentlemen!

Daav

If thats your bag then I would look around for a decent 335 style. The solid top thing is not going to help you there. If anything you'll end up with feedback problems.

The differences are far more subtle. If your set on a hollow body rather than a generic ss5 style look out for the basic 125 or 175's They are seriously under rated as work horses, very versatile.

 

[TWANGthang]

this n that

laminate wont vibrate as much as solid..
some semi hollows also have a center piece to help reduce feedback..
thicker bodys tend to feedback more easily..

solid wood does have a different sound..
but most of the famous thinlines are laminate woods..
they hold up better, too.

I use a 15 year old epiphone sheraton II

and I love it. I put humbuck size p90s in it.. and made some other changes.

I think epi has some of the nicest semi hollows out there that don't cost as much as a motorcycle.

dots.. sheris.. the lt. ed. p93 riviera... great price.. excellent guitars. easily modified to personal taste.
TWANG

 

[muttley600]

laminate wont vibrate as much as solid..

Not true

some semi hollows also have a center piece to help reduce feedback..

True.

thicker bodys tend to feedback more easily..

Not true entirely.

solid wood does have a different sound..

True.

but most of the famous thinlines are laminate woods..
they hold up better, too.

True and then not true.

I use a 15 year old epiphone sheraton II

and I love it. I put humbuck size p90s in it.. and made some other changes.

Very nice, I take it you are a fan of Epiphone?

I think epi has some of the nicest semi hollows out there that don't cost as much as a motorcycle.

I bought a motorcycle for £50 once and it ran ror three years and was still going when I sold it.

 

[Corndog]

I have a Sparrow Big Daddy Ace that yer gonna have to pry my cold dead hands off of. It' lam and I play through a Fender Super Twin and I don't think I've ever had any real feedback issues with it.

 

[TWANGthang]

not true?
I can't find anyone that says laminated wood will vibrate as much as solid.
Got a source for that opinion?
I'd be interested. Hate to go around lieing!
I really doubt it though.. though the modern glues are certainly thin,
laminated tops backs and sides seem thicker, to start with, and I can't imagine how the vibrations would transfer as well.


TWANG

ps I've got a couple of epis.. and a couple of vjs.. had five sold two. *s*
so yeah I'm a fan.

 

[muttley600]

not true?
I can't find anyone that says laminated wood will vibrate as much as solid.
Got a source for that opinion?
I'd be interested. Hate to go around lieing!
I really doubt it though.. though the modern glues are certainly thin,
laminated tops backs and sides seem thicker, to start with, and I can't imagine how the vibrations would transfer as well.


TWANG

ps I've got a couple of epis.. and a couple of vjs.. had five sold two. *s*
so yeah I'm a fan.

Yeh I have got a source I did the research myself when I was involved in musical acoustics and research and it's not an opinion. The paper was called something like "the physics and dynamics of archtop shell plates" or some such.

As a matter of fact many laminate plates vibrate more freely. That doesn't mean they are necessarily more or less resonant. Somewhere I've got some Cladni plate pictures of said plates and the modes of vibration and figures for the elastic stiffness, the mass and "Q for each as well. The paper is in the archive of the Guildhall in London somewhere. I don't think it made it to the online archive but you'd have to be a registered student to get at it.

I guessed you were an Epi fan from the pictures and posts you made earlier. Nothing wrong with Epi's.

 

[K Road]

If you are interested - I just posted a jazz guitar piece ("Slick Nick") in the mp3 section. The changes are played on a Strat, the single notes are played on a carved solid spruce top jazz box with a floating mini humbucker (Kent Armstrong) - direct into a 2488. The tonal contrast is, as you would expect, clear to hear. There is no EQ whatsoever added to the jazz box, only a slight touch of verb.

K.

 

[muttley600]

If you are interested - I just posted a jazz guitar piece ("Slick Nick") in the mp3 section. The changes are played on a Strat, the single notes are played on a carved solid spruce top jazz box with a floating mini humbucker (Kent Armstrong) - direct into a 2488. The tonal contrast is, as you would expect, clear to hear. There is no EQ whatsoever added to the jazz box, only a slight touch of verb.

K.

Nice one, I'll give it a proper listen when I'm at a decent pair of monitors. What archtop is it? And which of Kents pickups? I use them on most of my mine as standard now. The slimbucker is a decent pickup for the money.

 

[Milnoque]

I have a Byrdland and a ES335 and they do indeed sound different. And it's more than just the pickups.

These are two very different guitars. The block in the 335 that runs from the neck to the tailpiece (if it has a stop bar) is the most significant one. There is also a difference in scale length that has a major effect on tone. Comparing the two will not really tell you what the OP wanted to know.

You have two terrific guitars, congratulations.

 

[TWANGthang]

thanks muttley

nice to know stuff, eh!

TWANG