adamvelvetu
New member
i am working on recording a friend's band...we've finished tracking and i'm starting on the mixes. any advice on this rough version would be greatly appreciated:
seeking rough mix advice
- Thread starter adamvelvetu
- Start date
I'm not at all against a low-fi approach in principle, but there are a few things here I think you could work on.
I'm pretty sure I see what you were shooting for with that Filter Take-A-Picturesque intro that transitions into a more full band sound, but I think the impact would be greater if the transition was smoother. As it stands, the change is too drastic and the impact is lost, IMO. Perhaps ditching the quick jump from left to right would be a good first step.
Next, the drums sound like you put a mic in front of a clock radio. Again, nothing wrong with low-fi, but rock songs still need a discernable drum beat to drive them along.
The bass isn't sitting very well. It sounds a bit uneven and boomy. Maybe a bit of compression and EQ would help.
Lastly, in general, I think the guitars are too loud and are dominating everything else.
Good luck
Matt
I'm pretty sure I see what you were shooting for with that Filter Take-A-Picturesque intro that transitions into a more full band sound, but I think the impact would be greater if the transition was smoother. As it stands, the change is too drastic and the impact is lost, IMO. Perhaps ditching the quick jump from left to right would be a good first step.
Next, the drums sound like you put a mic in front of a clock radio. Again, nothing wrong with low-fi, but rock songs still need a discernable drum beat to drive them along.
The bass isn't sitting very well. It sounds a bit uneven and boomy. Maybe a bit of compression and EQ would help.
Lastly, in general, I think the guitars are too loud and are dominating everything else.
Good luck
Matt
adamvelvetu
New member
so guitar volume-wise were you referring to something more like this in relation to the drum tracks:
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21567
i left the drum tracks at the same volume (bass, snare, overhead) and then dropped the guitars by 8 db.
thanks for the input!
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21567
i left the drum tracks at the same volume (bass, snare, overhead) and then dropped the guitars by 8 db.
thanks for the input!
kerriobrown
New member
I do think the guitar levels are much better in the 2nd mix. Not sure where the bass gtr stands now but it sat well in the previous version. In this classic style it's important to here what the bass gtr is doing clearly during runs so I'd maintain it's relative level in the mix. You may also want to remove some of the low end of the guitar.
Kerrio
Kerrio
adamvelvetu
New member
thanks kerrio and matt...
this would just be an instrument mix. i moved the opening guitar in a bit from the left and kept the guitar volumes down. overall, i feel like this opened up quite a few inequities with the snare and bass so i did some slight eq'ing with them. i'm not sure what i think of the results so i'm preparing to shut down for the night and sleep on it:
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21568
thanks again for all the help!
this would just be an instrument mix. i moved the opening guitar in a bit from the left and kept the guitar volumes down. overall, i feel like this opened up quite a few inequities with the snare and bass so i did some slight eq'ing with them. i'm not sure what i think of the results so i'm preparing to shut down for the night and sleep on it:
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21568
thanks again for all the help!
adamvelvetu
New member
hello-
would certainly appreciate some more feedback...i think i like how the guitar/bass are eq'd and sitting together and their panning as well...the drums seem to be working too? would appreciate any input on getting the vocals to sit a little bit better...i feel like they could come down in volume.
thanks again!
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21573
would certainly appreciate some more feedback...i think i like how the guitar/bass are eq'd and sitting together and their panning as well...the drums seem to be working too? would appreciate any input on getting the vocals to sit a little bit better...i feel like they could come down in volume.
thanks again!
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21573
That's a bit better, but now I think the bass is a bit too high.
My main issues with the mix are still the transition out of the intro and the drums.
Did you track the intro guitars and the rest of the guitars in separate takes, or did you do them all in one take and manually split them so that you could apply different treatments to them? If I was working on this recording, I think I'd have the left-biased intro guitar run through the full song, and have a second slightly right-biased guitar (double-tracked) kick in at the transition out of the intro. This way, I think you'd get a similar effect but with better continuity. I'm not saying this approach is the ultimate answer, I'm just relating what popped into my head when I listened to this song.
As for the drums, I still think they need to be more prominent. I'm not sure if you're running hard compression on them or something which is causing them to lose their pop, but they're just not cutting through enough. How did you record them? I'm guessing you didn't close-mic anything, from the sound of it.
Matt
Llarion
New member
Matt has been on the money the whole thread. These are some truly speaker-damaging levels of lofi distortion. I can't say I'm a fan of the sound choice at all, but then, I don't understand the genre, it might be necessary. It's very juxtaposed against the clean and upfront vocal. The bass level is much better than the first pass, but it lacks definition and clarity. The drums still could kick harder. Interesting listening to this evolve!
adamvelvetu
New member
Matt has been on the money the whole thread. These are some truly speaker-damaging levels of lofi distortion. I can't say I'm a fan of the sound choice at all, but then, I don't understand the genre, it might be necessary. It's very juxtaposed against the clean and upfront vocal. The bass level is much better than the first pass, but it lacks definition and clarity. The drums still could kick harder. Interesting listening to this evolve!
hey man...thanks for taking the time to go through and listen to everything! yeah, the more i listen to the songs other people have posted i realize that the different tastes result in different ideas for mixes...which is fun
i went back and did less work to the guitars...when i first heard them i felt like they sounded bad and i eq'd them but your comment got me thinking so i moved them back.first, thanks again man! yup, the intro guitars were tracked as separate takes. what i did on this little version is drop out the guitar that is playing that main hook, which i like the sound of...makes for a bit more interesting song.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21583
i used 3 mics on the drums and got 'em pretty darn close (bass drum in the hole, etc...). i had ran the snare and bass through a compressor--i ran two versions one with and without the compression.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21581
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21582
thanks again for your time...have a good weekend.
first 30 seconds with all eq'ing off the guitars/compression off the drums
You're right, the hook riff works well as the intro--no arguments there. My only thing was that when the rest of the band comes in, there's an unnatural "disconnect" in the sound. Hearing this version without the left-panned intro, I'm even more convinced that you might want to try re-tracking that intro, but do a take that runs through the whole song rather than just a few bars.
So you ran the snare and kick mics through a hardware compressor when tracking? I'd say that, especially when you're just learning the ropes, stick with recording the drums completely dry and save the tweaks (if any--ideally they're very minor) for post processing.
I listened to those two drum samples and wow, does the kick ever sound different in each of them. One is all hollow click, and the other is all distant thud. Are they both the same exact take, but with a different signal path? If so, and if re-tracking is not an option, I'd suggest maybe importing both versions into your project and blending them.
Then, maybe do a complete re-mix, setting all levels against the drums. What I mean is, get them as loud as you can without any hard compression, EQ, or other nonsense, and then gradually bring the other elements of the mix in. With each element you introduce, listen to the drums and make sure you can still discern the snare, kick, hi-hat, etc. If any drum component disappears (or gets "masked" as they say) then that's a problem.
Good luck
Matt
adamvelvetu
New member
No, I ran them through the compressor after tracking. I dig what you're saying about the bass drum. Also, just a bit of background I did actually go to school for this many years ago. I wound up in the mastering field but left a few years ago to go into teaching. Obviously, mixing and mastering are two different creatures but I wanted to get a digital home setup kicking, which is why I'm here and appreciate all the advice
Yup, all the same take. I could probably get the drummer to come in and do re-track but I'll try a blend and see what it produces. Thanks again for all the help...much appreciated and I'm having a lot of fun
Thanks again for all the help...much appreciated and I'm having a lot of fun
No problem. To be clear, I'm pretty new to all this myself, but through hours and hours of recording and mixing over the past year--and, obviously, learning from this here forum--I've had many, many "Aaahhh, now I see how that works" moments. I think one of the reasons I've paid such close attention to this particular thread is that some of my biggest "moments of enlightenment" came out of trying to address things in my work that are eerily similar to what I hear in your recording. So, since these experiences are very fresh in my mind, I figured it'd be good to share them.
adamvelvetu
New member
Yeah man, this has been a great forum to be participating in. With that first mix I had reached the point where my ears just weren't cutting it...your perspective has really made it better. I wound up merging those two bass drum sounds and really liked the overall effect. I made a judgment call and dropped that intro guitar altogether...instead going with a more effects driven thing. I set the drums so they hit at about 9db and then the bass and guitar so they hit about 12db. I think this freed up a lot of space. I wound up moving that lead guitar part to the center channel as well.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21600
I just got Soundforge 10 and a few other plug-ins that work well with it so I decided to put through a bit of mastering as well...slight stereo imaging (below 347hz and 2ms delay on those freq. above), eq, and some slight limiting...hopefully there's a difference in clarity that ya'll might want to comment about
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21602
hope the weekend is swell!
Yeah man, this has been a great forum to be participating in. With that first mix I had reached the point where my ears just weren't cutting it...your perspective has really made it better. I wound up merging those two bass drum sounds and really liked the overall effect. I made a judgment call and dropped that intro guitar altogether...instead going with a more effects driven thing. I set the drums so they hit at about 9db and then the bass and guitar so they hit about 12db. I think this freed up a lot of space. I wound up moving that lead guitar part to the center channel as well.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21600
I just got Soundforge 10 and a few other plug-ins that work well with it so I decided to put through a bit of mastering as well...slight stereo imaging (below 347hz and 2ms delay on those freq. above), eq, and some slight limiting...hopefully there's a difference in clarity that ya'll might want to comment about
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=21602
hope the weekend is swell!
I like that intro much better, actually. Good choice. Sounds a lot more fluid.
These two mixes are definitely the best yet. Not sure which one I like better. The second one kind of jumps out more, but I'm wondering if that's only because it's a bit louder. I'd say, just go with the one you like better.
Still not crazy about the sound of the kick, but at least I can hear it now.
Have a good weekend
Matt